| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Answer with clear mistake selected in Kudoz, what now? Thread poster: delveneto
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Jessica Noyes 
United States
Local time: 12:14
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Please use asterisks [or brackets] | Jun 21, 2009 |
When you provide a large amount of context, such as a long legal paragraph, please put asterisks around the term you are seeking assistance for so the answerers can find it easily.
| | | | | You can grade the glossary entry!!! | Jun 21, 2009 |
As Enrique pointed out, comments about the grading decision is a violation of the rules.
However, after the glossary entry has been made, you can post an agree, disagree, or neutral comment on the glossary entry.
Look to the right within the "GLOSSARY ENTRY" box. There is a link that says, "Contribute to this entry." Click on that link and you will get a box that allows you to comment on the glossary entry.
Within the box, there is a menu that allows you to choose agree, disagree, or neutral Then, there is space for a comment on the entry (up to 255 characters) and two optional boxes that allow you to submit a definition and an example sentence.
You can also get to the glossary comment boxes for other terms by clicking on the "Browse KOG in field" link in the glossary entry box and then clicking on "Add Comment".
As long as you stick to the linguistic merits of the term, you should be good to go. 
Have fun!
| | | | | The only two things you can do | Jun 21, 2009 |
delveneto wrote:
The situation is when the asker chooses and awards points to an answer that has a clear mistake, I mean, really evident, as much as 2+2=5 (figuratively speaking). When I said "chooses", it means that there is at least another answer that doesn't seem to have any clear mistake. So, in detriment of a clearly more correct answer, the asker chooses a wrong one.
Is there anything that can be done when this kind of situation happens?
After helping in Kudoz for almost a decade and experiencing all possible expressions of joy and disappointment with askers and answerers, from my experience I can clearly advice you to:
A) If you are completely sure that the glossary entry will cause problems to other users in the future, use the Contribute to this entry option in the question and post a disagreement explaining why the term is not correct. This way you will leave a little red flag as a warning to other potential users of the glossary.
B) Take a deep breath, forget about it, and go on with your life.
Any other options are not only useless, but will occupy time in your mind for nothing. Keep your mind free from resentment about Kudoz questions. If it helps, take it as a game! Enjoy your peace knowing that you did your best to help others.
| | | | Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:14
Spanish to English
In other words I agree with all those who have suggested that the best way to tackle this is to disagree with the answer chosen. As far as I am aware, askers are notified by email of this disagree. They can then decide themselves what to do (if anything) to rescue their translation from disaster.
Recently, instead of answering KudoZ questions to take a break from work, I have decided to play real games on Facebook instead. Much more rewarding, satisfying and relaxing.
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| | PRen (X)
Canada
Local time: 13:14
French to English
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| Someone that, someone who.... | Jun 21, 2009 |
delveneto wrote:
I guess some people work with languages that they simply don't have enough knowledge even for simple decisions or they just don't care doing the right thing after they have their answer.
Boy, is that every true. Especially English.
| | | | Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 18:14
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
| Post-grading peer disagrees | Jun 21, 2009 |
That is certainly the first step to make. Point out in detail why the selected answer is wrong.
The asker can change the selected answer if the person who provided the previously selected answer agrees to it; moderators (and staff members) can "ungrade" the question then.
This possibility should be given more visibility. Since askers already receive emails about peer disagrees given to submitted answers, a slight change could be made when such a peer disagree is given to a s... See more That is certainly the first step to make. Point out in detail why the selected answer is wrong.
The asker can change the selected answer if the person who provided the previously selected answer agrees to it; moderators (and staff members) can "ungrade" the question then.
This possibility should be given more visibility. Since askers already receive emails about peer disagrees given to submitted answers, a slight change could be made when such a peer disagree is given to a selected answer. "An email with a subject like The answer you selected received a post-grading peer disagree" could be sent, with the contents of a boilerplate message like
Please consider peer disagrees to selected answers as a valuable feedback: take some time to review the answers and the peer comments again. If you realize that you made a mistake in selecting the most helpful answer, contact a moderator, who can ungrade the question if the person who provided the previously selected answer agrees to it. Please read the following FAQ about the best practices for selecting the most helpful answer.
Such a FAQ entry does not exist yet but would be quite useful.
I am not saying that this (raising awareness about post grading peer disagrees + add such a boilerplate) would completely solve the problem -- but it would be a good first step, without changing the system fundamentally.
Encouraging post-grading peer disagrees may lead to an increase in the number of unsubstantiated criticisms, so writing a detailed FAQ on best practices is quite important.
Attila ▲ Collapse
| | | | | More ruleZZZ? | Jun 21, 2009 |
Attila Piróth wrote: That is certainly the first step to make. Point out in detail why the selected answer is wrong. The asker can change the selected answer if the person who provided the previously selected answer agrees to it; moderators (and staff members) can "ungrade" the question then. This possibility should be given more visibility. Since askers already receive emails about peer disagrees given to submitted answers, a slight change could be made when such a peer disagree is given to a selected answer. "An email with a subject like The answer you selected received a post-grading peer disagree" could be sent, with the contents of a boilerplate message like Please consider peer disagrees to selected answers as a valuable feedback: take some time to review the answers and the peer comments again. If you realize that you made a mistake in selecting the most helpful answer, contact a moderator, who can ungrade the question if the person who provided the previously selected answer agrees to it. Please read the following FAQ about the best practices for selecting the most helpful answer. Such a FAQ entry does not exist yet but would be quite useful. I am not saying that this (raising awareness about post grading peer disagrees + add such a boilerplate) would completely solve the problem -- but it would be a good first step, without changing the system fundamentally. Encouraging post-grading peer disagrees may lead to an increase in the number of unsubstantiated criticisms, so writing a detailed FAQ on best practices is quite important. Attila
Why do you assume this will lead to an increase in unsubstantiated criticisms? Why does everything have to be immediately regimented? Askers can choose unsubstantiated answers without explaining why they do so. People are allowed substantiate answers by simply posting HTH, ... or even in the space where they are supposed to provide an explanation . Disagrees have always had to be substantiated anyway. Why add additional ruleZ to control those who disagree when those who ask, answer and/or select answers have full freedom to do as they please?
Imo, it's time to lighten up.
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Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 18:14
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
| I did not mention implementing any new rules | Jun 21, 2009 |
writeaway wrote:
Why do you assume this will lead to an increase in unsubstantiated criticisms?
I can imagine that emphasizing the possibility of re-grading a question may attract more post-grading comments -- only time would tell. From what I have seen in KudoZ, I cannot rule out its possibility, that is why I wrote "may". If this would be a consequence of the kind of email I mentioned, then I believe that adding relevant comments to the FAQ would be helpful.
writeaway wrote: Why does everything have to be immediately regimented? Askers can choose unsubstantiated answers without explaining why they do so. People are allowed substantiate answers by simply posting HTH, ... or even in the space where they are supposed to provide an explanation . Disagrees have always had to be substantiated anyway. Why add additional ruleZ to control those who disagree when those who ask, answer and/or select answers have full freedom to do as they please? Imo, it's time to lighten up.
Of course, you are right, disagrees have to be substantiated. Still, in my experience, they are not informative enough in many cases. I think that if the best practices are readily available in the FAQ, and askers and answerers are informed, the quality of answers can improve. I am speaking about informing them -- I never mentioned implementing any new rules.
Attila
| | | | | The problem is not the wrong answer, the problem is the "Devaluation" of the Kudoz system | Jun 21, 2009 |
Kim Metzger wrote: Enrique wrote: The main goal of the "help" KudoZ system is to provide those in need of translation assistance with access to timely help. The fact that an archive of previously posted terms with suggested translations has built up is a planned, yet peripheral, benefit. ............. Comments about the grading decisions of a particular asker would not be in line with site rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7 .................. ............... But the idea that pro-level KudoZ can’t be designed to produce professional results and that all the efforts to make it so are to be abandoned and that it is to be replaced with “Glossary Building KudoZ” is a bitter disappointment to the hundreds of pros who were excited about the prospects for KudoZ in the beginning. Enforcement of the old rules for asking questions would go a long way toward professionalizing pro-level KudoZ. 2.1 - Use KudoZ to ask for a translation only after you have consulted the KudoZ archives (KudoZ > ProZ.com Term Search from the main menu), dictionaries, search engines and any other commonly available resources that might be helpful. If you find translations elsewhere and still wish to post a KudoZ question, include the information you have found and explain what further information you seek. 2.3 - Sufficient context must be provided with each question. When there is no context, indicate the subject area and type of document. It can be helpful to enter entire sentences or even paragraphs where the term(s) in question occur. Appropriate general and detailed fields indicating the context must be chosen from the dropdown menus. Avoid choosing "Other" when there is a more appropriate field.
The "Glossary Building Kudoz" project is IMO a farce, most of the questions asked are on a level that every 5th grader could answer. At the same time the value and the quality of the "old" Kudoz system is further and further undermined by Proz. The only conclusion I can draw from this development is to answer less and less questions. I will definitely not contribute to GBK, I have not forgotten about the WikiWords disaster, and I never got a convincing answer where GBK differs from WikiWords.
The "devaluation" of the old Kudoz system and the resistance of Proz to any ideas and proposals to clean the KOG or to improve the quality of the Kudoz system is the reason why I more or less stopped answering questions, and I guess the day is not far where I completely stopp using the system.
| | | | Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:14
Spanish to English
| Good idea, Attila | Jun 21, 2009 |
Attila Piróth wrote: That is certainly the first step to make. Point out in detail why the selected answer is wrong. The asker can change the selected answer if the person who provided the previously selected answer agrees to it; moderators (and staff members) can "ungrade" the question then. This possibility should be given more visibility. Since askers already receive emails about peer disagrees given to submitted answers, a slight change could be made when such a peer disagree is given to a selected answer. "An email with a subject like The answer you selected received a post-grading peer disagree" could be sent, with the contents of a boilerplate message like Please consider peer disagrees to selected answers as a valuable feedback: take some time to review the answers and the peer comments again. If you realize that you made a mistake in selecting the most helpful answer, contact a moderator, who can ungrade the question if the person who provided the previously selected answer agrees to it. Please read the following FAQ about the best practices for selecting the most helpful answer.
This seems like a good idea to me.
| | | | liz askew
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:14
Member (2007)
French to English
+ ...
| Professionalism | Jun 21, 2009 |
Hi there
I understand your feelings entirely, but we are powerless to do anything, as writeaway has already commented.
Seems that anybody with any kind of linguistic authority or potential authority or any professed professional will be challenged by the community in any case as there seem to be few people nowadays who are prepared to be questioned or criticised for their choices or answers or whatever. So we just have to accept that errors will be made and that nobody... See more Hi there
I understand your feelings entirely, but we are powerless to do anything, as writeaway has already commented.
Seems that anybody with any kind of linguistic authority or potential authority or any professed professional will be challenged by the community in any case as there seem to be few people nowadays who are prepared to be questioned or criticised for their choices or answers or whatever. So we just have to accept that errors will be made and that nobody is allowed to be an authority on anything these days. We just all have to make our own individual minds up it seems.
No wonder we are floundering in the dark sometimes:-)
Are we losing our way? or is it just that "individualism" has taken over entirely?
Cheers!
Liz Askew ▲ Collapse
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| Another choice about what to do | Jun 21, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
After helping in Kudoz for almost a decade and experiencing all possible expressions of joy and disappointment with askers and answerers, from my experience I can clearly advice you to:
A) If you are completely sure that the glossary entry will cause problems to other users in the future, use the Contribute to this entry option in the question and post a disagreement explaining why the term is not correct. This way you will leave a little red flag as a warning to other potential users of the glossary.
B) Take a deep breath, forget about it, and go on with your life.
Any other options are not only useless, but will occupy time in your mind for nothing. Keep your mind free from resentment about Kudoz questions. If it helps, take it as a game! Enjoy your peace knowing that you did your best to help others.
There are other things that we can do additionally or as an alternate to commenting on or grading the glossary entry.
When I disagree with the answer chosen, or when I believe that my answer is a good alternate to the answer chosen, I post my answer in my glossary so that there is a better chance of my answer being seen when someone searches the KOG. Under these circumstances, I make a point of providing a definition and example sentences.
On two occasions, I have asked the moderator to change a glossary entry and they did. Once as a newbie not knowing that alternate actions were available and once when a capital letter changed the meaning of the term. So, with good reason, a moderator can and will change a glossary entry.
Ultimately, though, as others have stated, it is up to the translator to judge any dictionary, glossary, or web search as to the validity and usability of a particular translation. And let's face it, some people are better than others at this task.
| | | | delveneto
United States
Local time: 12:14
English to Portuguese
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TOPIC STARTER | Thank you but still counting... | Jun 21, 2009 |
Thank you all for your kind, interesting and many wise replies.
I need to follow all good advices from this thread and don't bother, definitely, as difficult as it may be for me not to be bothered by these things. But eventually, I will stop answering questions, or answer less frequently. I have already stopped answering for askers that only ask and never answer anything (leechers, I'd call them, a borrowed word from the torrent world), unless I know the answer right away.
... See more Thank you all for your kind, interesting and many wise replies.
I need to follow all good advices from this thread and don't bother, definitely, as difficult as it may be for me not to be bothered by these things. But eventually, I will stop answering questions, or answer less frequently. I have already stopped answering for askers that only ask and never answer anything (leechers, I'd call them, a borrowed word from the torrent world), unless I know the answer right away.
[Edited at 2009-06-21 20:51 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 18:14
English to French
+ ...
It seems to me a good attitude for a translator to be bothered by wrong translations.
Just my personal point of view.
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