| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | How about a Blue Board containing feedback on translators? Thread poster: Joeri Van Liefferinge
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Karin Adamczyk (X) 
Canada
Local time: 22:35
French to English
| Why is it fair for one type of business, but not the other? | Dec 16, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-12-16 16:27, Marijke wrote:
I think it is a bad idea and open to abuse.
When I started the Payment Practices mailing list, it was seen as a way to weed out the bad apples and make such agencies take notice that we were not going to be abused anymore.
Why should there be any difference in this?
In fact, professional translators should wel... See more Quote:
On 2002-12-16 16:27, Marijke wrote:
I think it is a bad idea and open to abuse.
When I started the Payment Practices mailing list, it was seen as a way to weed out the bad apples and make such agencies take notice that we were not going to be abused anymore.
Why should there be any difference in this?
In fact, professional translators should welcome this new idea because it will weed out the bad apples here too.
Take care,
Karin ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mats Wiman
Sweden
Local time: 04:35
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...
In memoriam | On ProZ.com, you have lots to rely on!! | Dec 16, 2002 |
Joeri Van Liefferinge (King Darling Communications) says:
\"But when I am looking for translators, I have nothing to rely on.\"
You have lots to rely on: Your own judgement!
Now, how does one collect data in order to make a well informed judgement?
Let me mention a few:
1) Try to establish if the translator translates into his/her mother tongue. His/her name is one indication, certificates a... See more Joeri Van Liefferinge (King Darling Communications) says:
\"But when I am looking for translators, I have nothing to rely on.\"
You have lots to rely on: Your own judgement!
Now, how does one collect data in order to make a well informed judgement?
Let me mention a few:
1) Try to establish if the translator translates into his/her mother tongue. His/her name is one indication, certificates another, proven jobs a third.
2) Try to establish the general competence of the translator. Certificates? Authorizations? KudoZ points?
3) Try to establish if s/he seems to be a reasonable character. Is s/he participating in community activities and HOW?
4) What does his/her profile page and homepage look like? I think one could deduct quite a lot from those pages.
5) Is s/he open about address and other contact details? Complete data = Higher trustworthiness than an empty or skeleton one.
6) The safest way is to invest a few cents in a personal chat by phone. Some people seem to think it\'s too expensive, but in most cases its saves heaps of dollars at a later stage. With today\'s cheap rates like $ 0.09/minute no-one could claim it\'s too expensive.
7) AND: The best way: Throw a bone to him/her, i.e. give a two-page PAID translation in order to see how s/he performs under normal circumstances.
DO NOT ASK FOR A FREE SAMPLE TRANSLATION! It\'s an invitation get a polished/assisted/ outsourced translation deceiving you into believing that the result is the normal one.
If you adress the above points and/or combinations of them, I\'m sure you\'ll not miss a translator blueboard with it built in risks of malevolent judgements.
Best regards
Mats J C Wiman
Übersetzer/Translator/Traducteur/Traductor > swe
http://www.MatsWiman.com
http://www.Deutsch-Schwedisch.com
http://www.proz.com/translator/1749 Deu>swe Proz.com moderator
eMail: [email protected]
Träsk 201
SE-872 97 Skog
Tel : +46-612-54112
Fax : +46-612-54181
Mobile: +46-70-5769797
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| | | | williamson (X)
Local time: 04:35
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Clear-cut instructions. | Dec 16, 2002 |
If you can put forward clear-cut objective criteria to the translator about what is expected of him/her and you grade him according to these expectations, then your idea is not a bad one.
I used to work for a big agency, which gave very clear instructions with regard to the quality of the translation and rated me according to these standards.
Each aspect of a translation got a weighed mark, whereby grammatical errors, for instance pulled down your avarage more than typos. F... See more If you can put forward clear-cut objective criteria to the translator about what is expected of him/her and you grade him according to these expectations, then your idea is not a bad one.
I used to work for a big agency, which gave very clear instructions with regard to the quality of the translation and rated me according to these standards.
Each aspect of a translation got a weighed mark, whereby grammatical errors, for instance pulled down your avarage more than typos. Falling below a certain level meant that a translator got less assignments. I found this a healthy system.
No \"I think that, I am of the opinion that\", but you have made the following mistakes, this is your grade, pay attention or we will diminish the volume you get from us\".
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With regard to bulletin-boards:
If the agency owners do not apply objective judgement criteria, you can forget a neutral judgement and the bulletin-board is worthless.
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| | | | Cristiana Coblis
Romania
Local time: 05:35
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
| skills_rate group | Dec 16, 2002 |
I would like to know more about this group, if possible please.
TIA
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Karin Adamczyk (X)
Canada
Local time: 22:35
French to English
| Translators' responsibilities | Dec 16, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-12-16 16:27, Marijke wrote:
I think it is a bad idea and open to abuse.
The quality may be bad because the time given was too short or the translation agency decided to send 10,000 words instead of 5,000 at the very last minute.
Isn\'t it up to the translator to determine whether or not they have enough time to do a good job? If the agency sent 10,000 words... See more Quote:
On 2002-12-16 16:27, Marijke wrote:
I think it is a bad idea and open to abuse.
The quality may be bad because the time given was too short or the translation agency decided to send 10,000 words instead of 5,000 at the very last minute.
Isn\'t it up to the translator to determine whether or not they have enough time to do a good job? If the agency sent 10,000 words instead of 5,000, did you work on it as if it were still 5,000, or did you realize the error. Did you just go ahead or did you contact the agency to ask 1) whether there was a mistake, 2) which parts were not to be translated, 3) would there be an extension?
I have had experiences of translators agreeing to take on portions of jobs, and then disappearing into thin air a couple of days after starting, never saying anything, others who completely disregarded supplied terminology or instructions or both.
Someone else mentioned having a bad day. That is not a valid reason for handing in sub-standard work. Work should always be reread and most professionals have their translations revised by another party.
My experiences have resulted in working night and day to meet deadlines because revisions were much more than simply revision -- they were reworks. I have been 3 weeks late on a deadline due to translator sloppiness. In that particular case, my client had picked the translators that provided the worst work and accepted the late delivery without problem, but the fact remains that delivery was very late.
I have been very careful to only give small jobs for the first jobs, but that does not always work.
We need to know who is good at what type of work, what their weak points are and whether or not they can be relied upon to deliver as promised.
FWIW,
Karin Adamczyk ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Job Track Record | Dec 16, 2002 |
There actually used to be a kind of \"translator blue board\", but the Job Track Record, which was part of the profile page, has been offline for a year or so.
I wonder why? Just technical reasons? Maybe Henry would tell us...
I think getting this \"online\" again would improve ProZ as it would provide \"instant\" references to the outsourcer.
You may critize such a system, however, it works great for other site such as elance or, in... See more There actually used to be a kind of \"translator blue board\", but the Job Track Record, which was part of the profile page, has been offline for a year or so.
I wonder why? Just technical reasons? Maybe Henry would tell us...
I think getting this \"online\" again would improve ProZ as it would provide \"instant\" references to the outsourcer.
You may critize such a system, however, it works great for other site such as elance or, in a different sector, ebay.
With the impersonal internet, its all about one thing: TRUST.
Just my two cents! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 04:35
English to French
+ ...
Pity! Pity for the beginners...
This year was my first year and I did a few mistakes, some of them partly due to the fact that I lacked money and this weakened my concentration.
Now I am better off and I feel able to do better, estimating time, refusing some jobs, etc., but I only wish the agencies would have the intelligence to mention if someone is a beginner or not. It is just to stern to condemn someone for ten years because of the first months.
| | | | kbamert
Local time: 04:35
French to German
+ ...
| new list access for freelancers? | Dec 16, 2002 |
Hello
Quote:A mailing list was set up exactly for this purpose. The list is at
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| Ratings and such | Dec 16, 2002 |
Dear All,
Here are some more thoughts.
Domenica wrote:
I am \"only\" a translator, not an agency, and I would like to see rates published for assignments completed.
We already have that for jobs through ProZ: Job Track Record (although it seems to be off-line).
Abuse is a word that is used a lot because it happens a lot. Translators are abused because rates are low, because their invoices do ... See more Dear All,
Here are some more thoughts.
Domenica wrote:
I am \"only\" a translator, not an agency, and I would like to see rates published for assignments completed.
We already have that for jobs through ProZ: Job Track Record (although it seems to be off-line).
Abuse is a word that is used a lot because it happens a lot. Translators are abused because rates are low, because their invoices do not get paid, because someone disagrees with their answers, etc. It’s a fact of life when you enter a public place visited by so many people.
Giving an agency a bad rating is one thing but giving one to an individual is another matter. An agency can change its name, if it changes its spots (or not, of course). What I am trying to say is that an agency is impersonal while a translator is not.
I am aware that the rating may also be positive and I\'m sure nobody would object to that.
Worst case scenario. Johnny woke up this morning with the flu and was offered a translation job in his language pair and area of expertise. His mother is in hospital awaiting surgery. Johnny really needs the job to pay towards the medical bills. He also knows the agency is asking a lot: 10,000 words in 3 days. He explains to the agency that it means doing a lot of words per day and that the quality in relation to spelling may suffer slightly. That’s OK, says the agency. Johnny delivers on time and knows it’s not his best work but it’s not bad. The agency calls two days later and says they found 10 typos and they prefer the word ‘client’ to ‘customer’ and will be giving him a poor rating on the XXX web site. Is this fair? What can Johnny do?
I don’t think this is fair. Inevitably, when you rate something, regardless of what it is, you do not include the background information (what is known as mitigating circumstances) and this is most unfair. The same applies to the Agencies Blue Board but there the only thing we rate is whether they paid on time. This can be answered with a simple Yes or No. You set your parameters: within 30 days, 60 days, 1 year, and based on that you answer Yes or No. End of story. You are not publicly dragging someone’s reputation through the mud. There can also be mitigating circumstances for the agency but they should, in theory, be covered in relation to payments since they are true ‘business people’.
Arthur wrote:
Could we accept the principle of agencies rating us but make them fill in lots of little boxes with all the criteria you point out very rightly?
I do not object to this in principle but who will be doing the ratings. The agencies are not really an independent, autonomous body. They are subjective. To become members of ITI and ATA (to name but a few) you have to meet stringent criteria. Let that be enough!
JMF proposed asking for professional references. This is a very good idea. Of course the translator will suggest only those agencies/people which he or she is fairly sure will supply a positive reference but that is only to be expected.
I am sure we all have been in Johnny’s shoes at some time or another. I know I have! 2 instances in a 19-year career. Should I be crucified for this? And I haven’t even told you the mitigating circumstances!
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| | | | williamson (X)
Local time: 04:35
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Job Track Record-Test Translation | Dec 16, 2002 |
The job track record only delivers feedback on jobs a translator obtained through Proz.
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A short, but difficult test-translation where the translator has to weigh every word (example : the test-translations St.Clair, Bull and Partner) is a means to determine what a translator is capable of.
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| | | | Monika Coulson
Local time: 20:35
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | I totally agree with Mats | Dec 16, 2002 |
there are lots of things from the translator\'s ProZ profile that help you \"know\" the translator.
Quote:
Let me mention a few:
1) Try to establish if the translator translates into his/her mother tongue. His/her name is one indication, certificates another, proven jobs a third.
2) Try to establish the general competence of the translator. Certificates? Authorizations? KudoZ points?
... See more there are lots of things from the translator\'s ProZ profile that help you \"know\" the translator.
Quote:
Let me mention a few:
1) Try to establish if the translator translates into his/her mother tongue. His/her name is one indication, certificates another, proven jobs a third.
2) Try to establish the general competence of the translator. Certificates? Authorizations? KudoZ points?
3) Try to establish if s/he seems to be a reasonable character. Is s/he participating in community activities and HOW?
4) What does his/her profile page and homepage look like? I think one could deduct quite a lot from those pages.
5) Is s/he open about address and other contact details? Complete data = Higher trustworthiness than an empty or skeleton one.
6) The safest way is to invest a few cents in a personal chat by phone. Some people seem to think it\'s too expensive, but in most cases its saves heaps of dollars at a later stage. With today\'s cheap rates like $ 0.09/minute no-one could claim it\'s too expensive.
7) AND: The best way: Throw a bone to him/her, i.e. give a two-page PAID translation in order to see how s/he performs under normal circumstances.
DO NOT ASK FOR A FREE SAMPLE TRANSLATION! It\'s an invitation get a polished/assisted/ outsourced translation deceiving you into believing that the result is the normal one.
Well said Mats!
Monika ▲ Collapse
| | | | Maya Jurt
Switzerland
Local time: 04:35
French to German
+ ...
| Taking things apart, | Dec 16, 2002 |
1) Try to establish if the translator translates into his/her mother tongue. His/her name is one indication, certificates another, proven jobs a third.
PREJUDICE NO. 1. WHAT GUARANTEE DO YOU HAVE THAT THIS PERSON MASTERS THE SOURCE LANGUAGE?
NONE.
2) Try to establish the general competence of the translator. Certificates? Authorizations? KudoZ points?
PREJUDICE NO. 2: CERTIFICATES ARE GOOD, BUT EXPERIENCE IS BETTER: KUDO... See more 1) Try to establish if the translator translates into his/her mother tongue. His/her name is one indication, certificates another, proven jobs a third.
PREJUDICE NO. 1. WHAT GUARANTEE DO YOU HAVE THAT THIS PERSON MASTERS THE SOURCE LANGUAGE?
NONE.
2) Try to establish the general competence of the translator. Certificates? Authorizations? KudoZ points?
PREJUDICE NO. 2: CERTIFICATES ARE GOOD, BUT EXPERIENCE IS BETTER: KUDOZ MEANS DICTIONNARIES. MAYBE A BIT MORE, BUT NOT MUCH.
3) Try to establish if s/he seems to be a reasonable character. Is s/he participating in community activities and HOW?
PREJUDICE NO. 3 SOME PEOPLE TO DO NOT ALWAYS HAVE TIME TO PARTICIPATE. GOOD FOR ELIMINATING PEOPLE, YES.
4) What does his/her profile page and homepage look like? I think one could deduct quite a lot from those pages.
THAT\'S A GOOD POINT ALBEIT A MINOR ONE.
5) Is s/he open about address and other contact details? Complete data = Higher trustworthiness than an empty or skeleton one.
PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT REASONS NOT TO BE OPEN ABOUT THEIR IDENTITY, BUT YES, IN GENERAL I WOULD AGREE
6) The safest way is to invest a few cents in a personal chat by phone. Some people seem to think it\'s too expensive, but in most cases its saves heaps of dollars at a later stage. With today\'s cheap rates like $ 0.09/minute no-one could claim it\'s too expensive.
GOOD POINT, IF YOU ARE ABLE TO JUDGE PEOPLE FROM ONE CONVERSATION. FEW ARE THE ONES WHO ARE GOOD AT IT.
7) AND: The best way: Throw a bone to him/her, i.e. give a two-page PAID translation in order to see how s/he performs under normal circumstances.
DO NOT ASK FOR A FREE SAMPLE TRANSLATION! It\'s an invitation get a polished/assisted/ outsourced translation deceiving you into believing that the result is the normal one.
BEST POINT.
Sorry about the capital letters. Only there to make reading easier.
Greetings
Maya
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-12-16 22:22 ] ▲ Collapse
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Karin Adamczyk (X)
Canada
Local time: 22:35
French to English
| I just have to say it | Dec 17, 2002 |
Below are several things that make some translators look rather unprofessional.I have received some prime examples from freelancers since this topic started.
1. They did not read the instructions for joining carefully, or they decided not to provide all the information required.
2. They do not identify themselves completely.
3. They suggest that the recipient of their message check their ProZ profile instead of providing information ... See more Below are several things that make some translators look rather unprofessional.I have received some prime examples from freelancers since this topic started.
1. They did not read the instructions for joining carefully, or they decided not to provide all the information required.
2. They do not identify themselves completely.
3. They suggest that the recipient of their message check their ProZ profile instead of providing information about themselves. I also saw this many times when freelancers applied for work. When you make the agency do the work for you, there is much less chance of a positive reply.
4. In addition to suggesting that you check their profile, they don\'t even provide a link. The agency has to search.
5. They want to join a mailing list, but don\'t provide their e-mail address in the body of the message.
All of this causes additional work for the person you are writing to.
Here\'s a hint. When you want something, make it easier for your recipient, not harder.
End of rant,
Karin ▲ Collapse
| | | | Karin Adamczyk (X)
Canada
Local time: 22:35
French to English
| Too controversial for me | Dec 17, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-12-17 06:22, 1964 wrote:
By the way I am quite surprised you Deleted the group immediately.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skills_rate/
I could provide/receive very valuable information in the group, as I duly applied for membership.
Regards.
... See more Quote:
On 2002-12-17 06:22, 1964 wrote:
By the way I am quite surprised you Deleted the group immediately.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skills_rate/
I could provide/receive very valuable information in the group, as I duly applied for membership.
Regards.
Tayfun Torunoglu
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-12-17 07:07 ]
Too controversial for me 
Karin ▲ Collapse
| | | | Steffen Pollex (X)
Local time: 04:35
English to German
+ ...
On 2002-12-16 19:10, kadamczyk wrote:
We need to know who is good at what type of work, what their weak points are and whether or not they can be relied upon to deliver as promised.
FWIW,
Karin
Yes, but it would still be your turn to find this out on a case-by-case basis or through private investigation instead of creating a \"mud-trowing board\" as Tayfun put it.
This is my opinion, yo... See more
On 2002-12-16 19:10, kadamczyk wrote:
We need to know who is good at what type of work, what their weak points are and whether or not they can be relied upon to deliver as promised.
FWIW,
Karin
Yes, but it would still be your turn to find this out on a case-by-case basis or through private investigation instead of creating a \"mud-trowing board\" as Tayfun put it.
This is my opinion, yours may be different
Steffen
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