| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Does a language stop evolving if it's over-reliant on loanwords? Thread poster: Zolboo Batbold
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Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 11:21
French to English
Tom in London wrote: Zolboo Batbold wrote:
Italy is facing the same problem with Itanglese. Global domination of English? And we're not even talking about the authentic Shakespearean English. The English that is spreading throughtout the world is the Capitalistic English, that glorifies consumerism. Yes- and the problem is that many English words are being adopted into Italian WITH THE WRONG MEANING ! Such as "smart working" (which Italians think means "working from home") and is pronounced "zmawokin". [Edited at 2021-12-03 08:25 GMT]
Don't I know it. I did a harmless translation about a lingerie manufacturer trying to go global and gaining a footing in China. Client rang up to snootily inform me that "we don't do sportswear". Because "le footing" is what the French call jogging, she assumed I had written that they'd started selling running gear.
Similarly, another client told me I had forgotten to translate the word "gestion" in a sentence. I looked and told her I could clearly see the word "management". Problem was, they had actually written "la gestion et le management". I told them it was the same, and the client retorted that it most certainly wasn't. Turned out that in French "management" is only used for managing people, whereas "gestion" means managing things.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:21
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Kay Denney wrote:
.....Turned out that in French "management" is only used for managing people, whereas "gestion" means managing things.
Don't they know they already have a word for it: ménagement ?
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 02:21
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
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| Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:21
Serbian to English
+ ...
| Did you mean to ask | Dec 4, 2021 |
Does a language stop evolving in a desirable / the right direction if it's over-reliant on loanwords?
I would expect THAT question to generate a discussion as lively as when stirring the hornet's nest of "nativisme".
As asked, the answer is simple and plain: language keeps evolving to mirror the evolving reality (if there is one, if it's not the language of a closed stagnating/stationary society) - whatever is the "dosage" of loan-words.
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 10:21
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:21
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Mangling the English language | Dec 6, 2021 |
"loanwords" isn't even a word. "Loan words" might work, but the usual expression is "borrowed words".
[Edited at 2021-12-06 14:34 GMT]
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Tom in London wrote:
"loanwords" isn't even a word. "Loan words" might work, but the usual expression is "borrowed words".
I don't agree. Loanword with or without a space is the standard term I would expect to see.
An interesting objection in the context of language evolving... or is the irony intentional?
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:21
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Missing the point | Dec 6, 2021 |
The usual term is "borrowed words".
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| Oh no it isn’t | Dec 6, 2021 |
Tom in London wrote:
The usual term is "borrowed words".
As I say, I disagree. So does the number of Google hits.
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 02:21
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
| Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:21
Serbian to English
+ ...
| To add my bit of nitpicking ... | Dec 6, 2021 |
Tom in London wrote:
The usual term is "borrowed words".
How many of these "borrowed words" are ever "given back" to wherever they've been taken from?
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Tom in London wrote:
Yes- and the problem is that many English words are being adopted into Italian WITH THE WRONG MEANING ! Such as "smart working" (which Italians think means "working from home") and is pronounced "zmawokin".
Also pronounced smart working with Italian phonetic and the final G, you know what I mean. And now the Covid Certificate is Green Pass, urgh.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:21
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Angie Garbarino wrote: Tom in London wrote:
Yes- and the problem is that many English words are being adopted into Italian WITH THE WRONG MEANING ! Such as "smart working" (which Italians think means "working from home") and is pronounced "zmawokin".
Also pronounced smart working with Italian phonetic and the final G, you know what I mean. And now the Covid Certificate is Green Pass, urgh.
yes- something like "smauerkin"
When I lived in Italy I often found I had to deliberately mispronounce (or more frequently, avoid) certain English words that had been "borrowed" by Italian - or nobody would have understood me. Words like "toast", "fashion", shopping", "sandwich", "brand", etc.
[Edited at 2021-12-07 09:04 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:21
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Other nits to be picked | Dec 7, 2021 |
The expression in British English "to throw everything but the kitchen sink" became popular during World War II, where it was said that everything in the house, except the kitchen sink, was thrown at the enemy.
Nowadays the expression has become "to throw the kitchen sink" - which completely voids the expression of its original meaning.
AND ANOTHER THING
In British English the expression "as far as XXXXXX is concerned" has become, in American English, "as ... See more The expression in British English "to throw everything but the kitchen sink" became popular during World War II, where it was said that everything in the house, except the kitchen sink, was thrown at the enemy.
Nowadays the expression has become "to throw the kitchen sink" - which completely voids the expression of its original meaning.
AND ANOTHER THING
In British English the expression "as far as XXXXXX is concerned" has become, in American English, "as far as XXXXXX". I find the American version annoying because every time someone uses it I wait for the "is concerned", which never comes.
And speaking of nitpicking: it did once happen to me when there was an outbreak of nits at my school. I remember my mother going through my hair with a specially-bought fine-tooth comb.
Which is another common British English expression: to go through XXXXX with a fine-tooth comb. ▲ Collapse
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 10:21
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Trust me, it doesn't | Dec 8, 2021 |
Throughout history, my native language is one of the languages that has probably received a good number of foreign words or loanwords from other languages.
Thus, in Portuguese we have foreign words from French, Spanish, Arabic, English, Italian, German and other European, Asian and African languages.
Needless to say, the Portuguese language spoken in the European, African and American continents also lend some of their vocabulary to each other.
The influence of foreign language... See more Throughout history, my native language is one of the languages that has probably received a good number of foreign words or loanwords from other languages.
Thus, in Portuguese we have foreign words from French, Spanish, Arabic, English, Italian, German and other European, Asian and African languages.
Needless to say, the Portuguese language spoken in the European, African and American continents also lend some of their vocabulary to each other.
The influence of foreign languages doesn't make yours stop evolving, on the contrary, it can contribute to enriching it more. ▲ Collapse
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