| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | 'dictionary' questions allowed but 'real' translation problems not allowed? (staff: 'not true') 投稿者: Lia Fail (X)
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Lia Fail (X) 
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TOPIC STARTER | ProZ, 99% the solution to when you are stumped | May 22, 2005 |
Jessica Budds wrote:
Indeed, I wish I'd come across the site earlier, when I'd been completely stumped by some phrases! So I don't think kudoz should be abandoned; and maybe the response to point grabbing is to lower the score for non-pro terms?
Best wishes,
Jessica
Thanks for the support Jesica, and in passing, just to point out that I too am SO GLAD that ProZ exists specifically for when one is "stumped" .... which is what I was tonight...
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 18:16
| Apply the rules to everyone, then! | May 23, 2005 |
I cannot help but sympathize with Ailish, especially after having seen someone break a paragraph (or something like a poem) of more than 70 words, and post it as 7 different questions (in the Spanish-English pair). This person is clearly trying to sneak past the rules, and does not seem to have been asked to post the whole thing as a job. I believe in flexibility, most of all, but if the rules are going to be applied so strictly, then I think they should be applied equally to all!
[Edited... See more I cannot help but sympathize with Ailish, especially after having seen someone break a paragraph (or something like a poem) of more than 70 words, and post it as 7 different questions (in the Spanish-English pair). This person is clearly trying to sneak past the rules, and does not seem to have been asked to post the whole thing as a job. I believe in flexibility, most of all, but if the rules are going to be applied so strictly, then I think they should be applied equally to all!
[Edited at 2005-05-23 00:02] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Parrot
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| Monolingual questions? | May 23, 2005 |
When I run into difficulties of this sort, I go to source monolingual (reading difficulties) or target monolingual (editing difficulties). Can the question not be solved there?
| | | | RHELLER
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| good idea, Parrot! | May 23, 2005 |
I think Parrot has made an important point.
I often get the impression that the asker is not understanding the source text well enough to translate it. I think monolingual questions should be encouraged. Once the brain truly gets the meaning, it's a lot easier to put it into one's own language.
But Aisha may be asking a slightly different question. Can the source text also be included as well as the proposed text in the monolingual section? and ask for verification ... See more I think Parrot has made an important point.
I often get the impression that the asker is not understanding the source text well enough to translate it. I think monolingual questions should be encouraged. Once the brain truly gets the meaning, it's a lot easier to put it into one's own language.
But Aisha may be asking a slightly different question. Can the source text also be included as well as the proposed text in the monolingual section? and ask for verification as well as editing help?
Perhaps a new language-specific forum could handle those questions - called "please help me verify and edit this text".
It would be interesting to see the result as no kudoz points would be offered ▲ Collapse
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| I agree, but see no problem | May 23, 2005 |
I agree that the question is a legitimate one, but I see no problem. The question was posted, and answerers have responded. One potential answerer thought it broke the 10-word rule, but no one has squshed the question, but no moderator has taken any adverse action. Jessica Budd even justified the question in very clear terms.
When I post a question of this type, I state the source text, explain the source of my difficulty, present my draft, and invite colleagues to post suggestions,... See more I agree that the question is a legitimate one, but I see no problem. The question was posted, and answerers have responded. One potential answerer thought it broke the 10-word rule, but no one has squshed the question, but no moderator has taken any adverse action. Jessica Budd even justified the question in very clear terms.
When I post a question of this type, I state the source text, explain the source of my difficulty, present my draft, and invite colleagues to post suggestions, not necessarily translation of the passage. Somebody may have a suggestion about a word, a punctuation, word order, or may see a problem with the source text that would help me figure the thing out. In other words, I leave no doubt that I am not asking people to translate the text for me. This way, I avoid comments like those of David Russi. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | An important side note | May 23, 2005 |
Hi all,
When someone squashes your question, read what it says in the "Reason" field and make the necessary adjustments, then repost. A simple and straightforward solution. Okay, it won't always work, but you need to let people know that you are not trying to abuse the system or get around the rules.
HTH,
Mike
| | | | Mats Wiman
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追悼 | Valid problem Ailish! | May 23, 2005 |
Dear Ailish,
I have on the Mods Forum suggested a new type of question, the 'Syntax question' where a prerequisite would be to enter one's own suggestion, just like you did.
Also: No KOG entry but inclusion in a 'Syntax Library'.
Only open to platinum members.
We'll see how the suggestion is received.
Mats
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
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TOPIC STARTER | my question WAS answered, yes.... | May 23, 2005 |
Fuad Yahya wrote:
I agree that the question is a legitimate one, but I see no problem. The question was posted, and answerers have responded. One potential answerer thought it broke the 10-word rule, but no one has squshed the question, but no moderator has taken any adverse action. Jessica Budd even justified the question in very clear terms.
When I post a question of this type, I state the source text, explain the source of my difficulty, present my draft, and invite colleagues to post suggestions, not necessarily translation of the passage. Somebody may have a suggestion about a word, a punctuation, word order, or may see a problem with the source text that would help me figure the thing out. In other words, I leave no doubt that I am not asking people to translate the text for me. This way, I avoid comments like those of David Russi.
Fuad, my question was answered, I got exactly the help I needed, which basically came down to a key correction to a crucial preposition.
I am just concerned that site users/site management create/apply rules that seem to exclude the possibility of dealing with certain kinds of translation problems, such as the one I posted, and which is best solved by comparing and constrasting a number of opinions openly...
In retrospect, considering the key problem that the answerer identified for me - correct use of a single preposition - it was absolutely necessary to include the whole paragraph, to see precisely what relationship existed between the elements. So here a whole paragraph hinged on a single, little word, and my problem was that I had a hunch something was up, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
I hope something similar to Max's 'syntax' section is developed.
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Lia Fail (X)
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TOPIC STARTER | not squashed | May 23, 2005 |
Mikhail Kropotov wrote:
Hi all,
When someone squashes your question, read what it says in the "Reason" field and make the necessary adjustments, then repost. A simple and straightforward solution. Okay, it won't always work, but you need to let people know that you are not trying to abuse the system or get around the rules.
HTH,
Mike
Hi Mikhail
My question wasn't squashed, just the rule pointed out, and I rwacted straight away at what I thought the unfiarness of it (I didn't realise that people could still answer anyway)
Thanks for your advice. It seems to me like a reasonable and measured way to deal with a squashed question:-)
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
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TOPIC STARTER | but doesn't the 10-word rule apply there too? | May 23, 2005 |
Parrot wrote:
When I run into difficulties of this sort, I go to source monolingual (reading difficulties) or target monolingual (editing difficulties). Can the question not be solved there?
Like all the other kudoZ rules?
If not, it's certainly the solution:-)
| | | | | you question was answered... | May 23, 2005 |
Ailish Maher wrote:
...because the squash button is disabled since recently.
I know what you mean. I asked this kind of questions too. And sometimes my questions were squashed by proZians. It depended on my personal relations with the proZians, though.
Anyway, my approach is that applying the letter of any rule may lead to nonsensial results. Rules are formulated to pursue common sense goals. We have to feel the spirit of any rule, not follow blindly it's letter. Somehow I feel that our profession is about thinking a bit, especially when we see a context...
[Edited at 2005-05-23 11:10]
| | | | | I am glad you received the help you needed | May 23, 2005 |
Ailish Maher wrote:
I am just concerned that site users/site management create/apply rules that seem to exclude the possibility of dealing with certain kinds of translation problems, such as the one I posted, and which is best solved by comparing and constrasting a number of opinions openly...
In retrospect, considering the key problem that the answerer identified for me - correct use of a single preposition - it was absolutely necessary to include the whole paragraph, to see precisely what relationship existed between the elements. So here a whole paragraph hinged on a single, little word, and my problem was that I had a hunch something was up, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
You were definitely right in posting the entire longish text segment. To avoid comments that allude to the 10-word rule, it is a good idea to explain that the text is being posted to help answerers see the entire context, not to seek translation of that whole segment. The rules actually encourage rather than forbid including as full context as possible.
The type of problem you ran into happens very frequently, and I think it would be helpful if KudoZ was tweaked so that such questions are somehow idenitified as "non-terminology questions" to avoid any misunderstanding.
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| You had a legimimate translation question | May 23, 2005 |
It doesn't matter the number of words contained in the phrase. In my opinion, your translation doubt was a real Kudoz question. And the person who wrote the comment was perhaps very sensitive at that moment.
Regards,
Clarisa
| | | | Parrot
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| Parse the question for the system | May 23, 2005 |
Ailish Maher wrote: Parrot wrote:
When I run into difficulties of this sort, I go to source monolingual (reading difficulties) or target monolingual (editing difficulties). Can the question not be solved there? Like all the other kudoZ rules? If not, it's certainly the solution:-)
I know it can be a tall order in some cases (and in yours it certainly wouldn't do to exclude the source paragraph), but I force myself to do it (present an isolated "suspect" section from the whole, but make it clear, "hey I worked on this too") and get the feedback (no, that's not the problem, it's this one, etc.).
See, some of my questions really require monolingual source readings or edits. As a process, it's a 4-step drag (albeit highly recommended by my French-English translation teacher, especially in glossary-building), but I have to admit it exists and can be critical. I've learned how to attack some problems this way.
The 10-word rule is arbitrary, but so is the "translation unit" as defined by a computer program. This (the problematic translation unit) is, I think, still better determined by the human being, and can be parsed for the computer.
One thing true, when I present some of my unintelligible source texts in monolingual, I get a lot of reassuring sympathy from native speakers (reassuring in the sense, "it's certainly not you, it's the text")
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