| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | Double standard for English speakers translating out of their native language Thread poster: Deborah Hoffman
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Arnaud HERVE 
France
Local time: 12:30
English to French
+ ...
Well let's give a right to veto to natives AND the non-natives who claim expertise in the field then.
I can imagine a Dutch surgeon could be comfortable with anatomical words in English for instance.
For colloquial stuff I would still grant a priority to natives ^^
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 12:30
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| Veto is already possible | Mar 24, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
Well let's give a right to veto to natives AND the non-natives who claim expertise in the field then.
Well, that's my point: the opinion of a native speaker who does not claim some expertise in the field is of no value. I can imagine native speakers saying "it doesn't sound right to my ears", just because they have never happened to hear the correct usage in a specialized subject field.
When answering questions or commenting on other's suggestions, two things are necessary: language proficiency (at a high level, but not necessarily 'nativeness') AND knowledge of the subject field (again: at a high level).
And wow: We already have this system: Anyone who thinks to have the necessary knowledge about language and subject field can give answers and comment on others' suggestions. It's then up to the asker and future readers of the glossary to evaluate the validity of the individual contributions.
As for obivously nonsensical entries in the glossary, I think I have seen moderators remove these upon request.
[Bearbeitet am 2009-03-24 13:32 GMT]
| | | | | Judge Kudoz answers only if you know the fields/languages? | Mar 24, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
Well let's give a right to veto to natives AND the non-natives who claim expertise in the field then.
I can imagine a Dutch surgeon could be comfortable with anatomical words in English for instance.
For colloquial stuff I would still grant a priority to natives ^^
Sounds like a great idea. But it might discourage random guessing and restrict answering Kudoz questions to those who actually know the fields and/or the languages involved. No more wild shots in the dark, no more in the explanation area etc. Just serious answers from people who know what they are doing.
But this would upset the Kudoz applecart and suddenly prevent too many people from answering. So imo, it's unlikely that this will happen.
[Edited at 2009-03-24 13:42 GMT]
| | | | | Are Moderators still allowed to change glossary entries? | Mar 24, 2009 |
efreitag wrote:
As for obivously nonsensical entries in the glossary, I think I have seen moderators remove these upon request.
[Bearbeitet am 2009-03-24 13:32 GMT]
Afaik, the new moderator role eliminates any notion that a moderator is a linguistic authority. I had the impression that they are no longer allowed to touch any glossary entry, no matter how 'obviously nonsensical' they may be.
Moderators may serve additional and miscellaneous roles outside of the role of moderator, as do other members of the community, and are encouraged to do so. However, it should be understood that moderators do not serve to any degree as linguistic authorities. http://www.proz.com/?sp=info/team&ssp=team&sssp=moderators
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Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 12:30
English to French
+ ...
| The scarlet K | Mar 24, 2009 |
Well we could imagine displaying a red K tag instead of the P, close to the face of those who gave ridiculous answers.
And every time they write something on the site again, there would be an disgraceful drum noise.
| | | | | perhaps the real problem is lack of self-analysis... | Mar 24, 2009 |
efreitag wrote:
Well, that's my point: the opinion of a native speaker who does not claim some expertise in the field is of no value. I can imagine native speakers saying "it doesn't sound right to my ears", just because they have never happened to hear the correct usage in a specialized subject field.
When answering questions or commenting on other's suggestions, two things are necessary: language proficiency (at a high level, but not necessarily 'nativeness') AND knowledge of the subject field (again: at a high level).
[Bearbeitet am 2009-03-24 13:32 GMT]
When I provide input I try to specify *why* a particular answer is more preferable, whether it is a matter of specialized vocabulary, register (Mr. X "passed away" vs. "dropped dead), collocation (buildings are tall, not high), idiom (a bird in the hand isn't talking about a pet store), time period (groovy? cat's pajamas? sweet? sick?), regional/US/UK (chippy), or social association (use of terms like keester stash, goomba, or breeder can indicate who the speaker's friends are or that s/he is implying something beyond the linguistic by choosing that particular term ).
This serves two purposes: people can actually learn and/or discuss the issues intelligently, and it forces me to make sure I actually have a basis for disagreeing that is more than "it doesn't sound right." Although because I am not perfect there are instances where I just can't articulate it.
[Редактировалось 2009-03-24 21:53 GMT]
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 12:30
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Deborah Hoffman wrote:
perhaps the real problem is lack of self-analysis...
I agree 100%!
| | | | | You are not alone, Deborah | Jun 7, 2009 |
Hello, Deborah,
The most frustrating aspect of the whole Kudoz experience for me is that many translators who post responses seem oblivious to the fact that the forum exists for us to help each other and improve as translators in the process.
As for the native speaker thing, I agree that this is not necessarily critical for finding the best answer. However, I do find it a great shame that translators who claim to be a native speaker when they clearly are not (and I am ... See more Hello, Deborah,
The most frustrating aspect of the whole Kudoz experience for me is that many translators who post responses seem oblivious to the fact that the forum exists for us to help each other and improve as translators in the process.
As for the native speaker thing, I agree that this is not necessarily critical for finding the best answer. However, I do find it a great shame that translators who claim to be a native speaker when they clearly are not (and I am sure you have encountered them yourself) only lessen the benefit that Kudoz provides.
I know of a number of Russian-English translators who have abandoned KudoZ through disillusionment, and this is a loss to the rest of us.
ProZ may be the most user-friendly forum there is for translators, but there are other forums where the users are considerably more friendly.
Best wishes,
Simon ▲ Collapse
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