| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | KudoZ release: discussion area and other improvements Thread poster: Enrique Cavalitto
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Jack Doughty 
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:43
Russian to English
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In memoriam | Thank you, Mauricio | Aug 11, 2008 |
Yes, assuming some form of this is going to be inflicted on us, this would be a good idea.
| | | | Enrique Cavalitto
Argentina
Local time: 06:43
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | Real state management | Aug 11, 2008 |
Jack Doughty wrote:
Click it and it takes you to an area with a title saying exactly the same thing, with grey (gray) areas for entering the title and the comment. (Why grey?) Once one or more "discuss" entries have been made, there is a button on the main page which you have to click to see the discussion, on the same principle as a box on which you have to declare you are over 18 before being allowed to view something with sexual content. Why this hypersensitivity about discussion?
We are all responsible adults and should be treated as such.
Hi Jack,
The discussion box was implemented small as default to allow all key elements of the KudoZ environment to be displayed in one screen (the question, Clarification request(s) and response, the discussion area, the summary of answer, a bar indicating the presence of reference entries and the action buttons).
This bears no relationship with any kind of censorship, just real-state administration. An option is being evaluated to allow those who want it to see the discussion area open as default. Even then the size would be limited, with scroll bars when the posted entries exceed the box' size.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | If we must have the new discussion area, please make it more inviting | Aug 11, 2008 |
Mauricio Zoch wrote:
This option is just to save space on the screen to those who don't want to see the discussion, we could add an extra option to have always open the discussion board. what you think?
Jack Doughty wrote:
Yes, assuming some form of this is going to be inflicted on us, this would be a good idea.
Open by default might be good, to encourage more participation. How about displaying just a list of titles, if you still want to be economical with real-Estate.
And *please* can we also have an option to subscribe to email notifications for a discussion. At the moment the few discussions that exist are half-dead, as no-one knows when there's been a contribution.
| | | | | Post a reference | Aug 13, 2008 |
I agree with Stephanie and many other colleagues. I just think it was perfectly fine before and that we all used the "ask asker" as a "request clarifications" and "discussion". We need that BUT :
You sort of get lost easily with all these new features and IMHO the clarity of the Kudoz definitely suffers from it. Why wasn't the "ask asker" good enough ?
What is more, I just realized the "post a reference" option was actually considered as an answer (total number of answe... See more I agree with Stephanie and many other colleagues. I just think it was perfectly fine before and that we all used the "ask asker" as a "request clarifications" and "discussion". We need that BUT :
You sort of get lost easily with all these new features and IMHO the clarity of the Kudoz definitely suffers from it. Why wasn't the "ask asker" good enough ?
What is more, I just realized the "post a reference" option was actually considered as an answer (total number of answers encompasses the "references" posts) and I really don't think this is normal.
Thank you,
And have a great day !
[Edited at 2008-08-13 08:18] ▲ Collapse
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Enrique Cavalitto
Argentina
Local time: 06:43
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | This must be a bug, references will not be counted as answers | Aug 13, 2008 |
Myriam Dupouy wrote:
I agree with Stephanie and many other colleagues. I just think it was perfectly fine before and that we all used the "ask asker" as a "request clarifications" and "discussion". We need that BUT :
You sort of get lost easily with all these new features and IMHO the clarity of the Kudoz definitely suffers from it. Why wasn't the "ask asker" good enough ?
Hi Myriam,
In fact the new features had been requested by many members of the site, so they were developed and presented as alternatives to the community.
Of course changing an interface as popular as KudoZ is likely to produce adverse reactions among those who are used to it. I apologize for the discomfort that such change may have caused.
To minimize the shock of change, instructions were presented and efforts were made to make the new features as little obtrusive as possible. Also several features suggested in this thread have been or will be implemented.
Both the reference posts and the discussion features were used from the beginning, and a lot of attention is paid to what members say and actually do in the site, so we may expect further changes down the road.
What is more, I just realized the "post a reference" option was actually considered as an answer (total number of answers encompasses the "references" posts) and I really don't think this is normal.
It is not normal. Reference entries should not (and will not) be counted as answers. I can see that you have already submitted a support ticket to report this problem. Thanks a lot for that, this will help us solve it.
Thanks for your feedback,
Enrique
| | | | | Keep the best of the old, please | Aug 13, 2008 |
Enrique wrote:
... they were developed and presented as alternatives to the community.
Enrique,
Unfortunately, the perception from many users' point of view is quite the opposite.
These changes were not presented as "alternatives" at all: firstly, there seemed to be a draconian campaign to erase anything even slightly "off-topic" from the Ask Asker area; then the new features appeared, unannounced and accompanied by very stern and restrictive instructions (Jack described their tone as "threatening").
Here's my hope:
- the discussion area will be made more prominent, and the rules relaxed
- this will lead it to be used more, and to provide a necessary outlet for the less structured contributions which are often so valuable
- then in a while, we will look back and realise that [Ask Asker] has evolved for the good, and that [Request clarification] and [Discuss] provide a formal and an informal channel for reaction to the question, much as before, just not mixed up together.
| | | | Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:43
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam | Ask the Users | Aug 13, 2008 |
Those who wanted these changes may be a tiny but strident minority.
I have just suggested a poll topic on these changes. I doubt if it will be accepted, but if it is, it will give an idea of how much support there really is for all this.
| | | | Enrique Cavalitto
Argentina
Local time: 06:43
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | Development is driven by the community | Aug 13, 2008 |
Martin Cassell wrote: Enrique wrote:
... they were developed and presented as alternatives to the community.
Enrique, Unfortunately, the perception from many users' point of view is quite the opposite. These changes were not presented as "alternatives" at all: firstly, there seemed to be a draconian campaign to erase anything even slightly "off-topic" from the Ask Asker area; then the new features appeared, unannounced and accompanied by very stern and restrictive instructions (Jack described their tone as "threatening").
Jack Doughty wrote:
Those who wanted these changes may be a tiny but strident minority.
I have just suggested a poll topic on these changes. I doubt if it will be accepted, but if it is, it will give an idea of how much support there really is for all this.
The discussion area and the reference posts are new ways to interact with other in the KudoZ interface. The original instructions were modified as a result of member feedback. In particular the references to the rules are no longer there.
Other members requested these features and some members are using them already. Forum posts are an important point of feedback, but there are others, such as support requests, emails and, above all, usage patterns.
The features are still evolving based on feedback and usage. In particular, the options to have the discussion box open by default and to have discussion notifications will be delivered very soon.
So I would ask all parties to be patient and cooperate with this experiment from the initial implementation to wherever members' preferences will lead it.
[quote]
Here's my hope:
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| Call a spade a spade | Aug 13, 2008 |
Jack Doughty wrote:
Improvements? What improvements?
The old "Ask the asker" option was freely used for all these purposes, and why should it not have continued to be so? Now, everywhere you go, you are faced with restrictions and orders, treating us all like naughty children. I dislike this change intensely and would like to see it reversed.
Most of us were quite happy with the existing informal system, and prefer not to be dictated to about what we should and should not put under a breakdown into different headings. I find the warnings in bold black type particularly insulting and demeaning.
At present I am continuing to answer, comment, respond etc,. as usual (and to ask, if the occasion arises, but if this sort of petty over-regulation is extended to the rest of the KudoZ page too, I may well give up on it altogether.
Martin Cassell wrote:
These changes were not presented as "alternatives" at all: firstly, there seemed to be a draconian campaign to erase anything even slightly "off-topic" from the Ask Asker area; then the new features appeared, unannounced and accompanied by very stern and restrictive instructions (Jack described their tone as "threatening").
What is prohibited? Any mention of "rule" 2.1, for example.
2.1 KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help only after other resources have been exhausted. Resources available include the KudoZ archives (KudoZ > ProZ.com Term Search from the main menu), dictionaries, search engines, etc. If translations are found elsewhere and the decision to post a KudoZ question is made nevertheless, information found elsewhere should be included, along with an explanation of what further information is sought.
The site decreed long ago that if a member cites rule 2.1 he is in violation of
Rule 3.7 Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user).
So members should be aware that if they mention rule 2.1 in the discussion area, they will be subject to punishments. An example of a rules violation would be to ask the asker what his own research has yielded. Any insinuation that the asker has not done his homework before asking a question or that he's in over his head will be punished.
| | | | Simon Mac
Local time: 10:43
French to English
+ ...
| Ask the Asker | Aug 13, 2008 |
I am happily experimenting with the new features and pleased to see changes being added based on feedback.
What I would like to understand however is why we were not allowed to use the Ask the Asker feature for discussions or references. In the pairs I have an interest in, the Ask the Asker section was viciously moderated. Any discussion, addition of references, even the odd bit of banter was summarily deleted.
Here's an example where an interesting discussion just disa... See more I am happily experimenting with the new features and pleased to see changes being added based on feedback.
What I would like to understand however is why we were not allowed to use the Ask the Asker feature for discussions or references. In the pairs I have an interest in, the Ask the Asker section was viciously moderated. Any discussion, addition of references, even the odd bit of banter was summarily deleted.
Here's an example where an interesting discussion just disappeared. Twice! http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2589635
The new features get around these restrictions - and in time we may well grow to love them - but I still would like to understand why we had these restrictions on the Ask the Asker box.
In the meantime, many thanks for the two new tickboxes I have just discovered in the Discussion area! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Enrique Cavalitto
Argentina
Local time: 06:43
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks Myriam! | Aug 13, 2008 |
Myriam Dupouy wrote:
What is more, I just realized the "post a reference" option was actually considered as an answer (total number of answers encompasses the "references" posts) and I really don't think this is normal.
Myriam reported via support a link we had overlooked, where reference comments were erroneously included among answers. The bug was solved.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | Improvements to discussion area | Aug 13, 2008 |
yx37029 wrote:
... many thanks for the two new tickboxes I have just discovered in the Discussion area!
Indeed, these are very welcome. I'm sure they will help to encourage full use of the discussion area.
Thanks Enrique , Mauricio and the team!
Best wishes
Martin
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Enrique Cavalitto
Argentina
Local time: 06:43
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | Two new options implemented | Aug 13, 2008 |
Two new options have been added to the discussions feature:
a) Discussion board always open: When checked will show the discussion box open (provided that there was at least one post) in all questions visited by the user.
b) Send me notifications about this discussion: When selected, notifications will be sent to the user whenever a post is made in the discussion area of that particular question.
 ... See more Two new options have been added to the discussions feature:
a) Discussion board always open: When checked will show the discussion box open (provided that there was at least one post) in all questions visited by the user.
b) Send me notifications about this discussion: When selected, notifications will be sent to the user whenever a post is made in the discussion area of that particular question.
To select one option without making an entry just open the Discuss area, check the selected option and click on "Cancel" and "Hide discussion".
Regards,
Enrique ▲ Collapse
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 11:43
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| Very unhappy with changes | Aug 14, 2008 |
Dear colleagues and staff members,
I must say that I am quite unhappy with the changes, because the information gets spread so much.
In my opinion, the "ask the asker" function should contain all the discussion, clarification requests, references etc. I don't see why it should be necessary to distinguish between all those.
The kudoz function in its present way is unnecessarily complicated.
Best regards,
Erik
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efreitag wrote:
Dear colleagues and staff members,
I must say that I am quite unhappy with the changes, because the information gets spread so much.
In my opinion, the "ask the asker" function should contain all the discussion, clarification requests, references etc. I don't see why it should be necessary to distinguish between all those.
The kudoz function in its present way is unnecessarily complicated.
Best regards,
Erik
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