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carreggia
in sede amminstrativa e contenziosa (in this context)

Glossary entry

Italian term or phrase:

abside non distinta

English translation:

Indistinctive apse (apsis)

Added to glossary by Gad Kohenov
Apr 25, 2008 05:01
16 yrs ago
Italian term

abside non distinta

Italian to English Other Architecture
Presenta un’aula rettangolare con abside non distinta.

In the context of a XVI century castle which was restructured in the XVII century.

I've found several refs for "abside distinta" and none for "non distinta".

Has anyone come across either term before?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 Undistinctive apse (apsis)
4 an apse without distinctive features
3 +1 with no distinct apse
3 non protruding, englobed apse
2 very shallow apse
Change log

May 9, 2008 06:06: Gad Kohenov Created KOG entry

Discussion

Ivana UK (asker) Apr 26, 2008:
Defitinitely talking about the castle itself - the church is detailed elsewhere in the text. It's a difficult one without actually seeing the place...
simon tanner Apr 26, 2008:
does of course depend which part of the building complex we are talking about, as architran says
simon tanner Apr 26, 2008:
see what you mean - along those lines you could perhaps say 'pseudo apse', which actually gets a couple of hits (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="pseudo-apse"&btnG=Goog...
architran Apr 26, 2008:
Let's say it IS the castle (or part of it): perhaps "indistinct" is a better way to put it? There's something apse-like, but the ruined state of the site makes it hard to discern. Almost what Simon says, but not exactly...
architran Apr 26, 2008:
Moreover, you could argue that the Castle layout is a bit more sophisticated than just an "aula rettangolare..."
architran Apr 26, 2008:
But if we're talking about the church any one of the answers could be right! There is something where the apse should be. See http://www.chucco-zucco.eu/fotos.php?fotonr=1&maxftotonr=52
architran Apr 26, 2008:
Hold on, are we talking about the little church or the actual castle? The castle's a ruin. If there was an apse it's hard to make it out. Which is possibly what non distinta means. Either way Simon's nearest.
Ivana UK (asker) Apr 25, 2008:
I should also mention that the castle is in ruins, which is why I went with Simon's idea. I'll leave the question open for a while in case someone works out what it means!
Ivana UK (asker) Apr 25, 2008:
I'd better correct that! The Castle is the Castello di Zucco (with an o ) in Friuli Venezia Giulia.
Ivana UK (asker) Apr 25, 2008:
I did look up the castle but it didn't shed any light on the apse - virtually no mention of it online ... But, I will put you out of your misery: the castle is the Castello di Zucca, in Friuli Venezia Giulia
simon tanner Apr 25, 2008:
yes, that's what I think it is, as expressed somewhat clumsily by me and better by you and Carroll; I think this interpretation (i.e. architecturally-oriented) is more likely than desertfox's
architran Apr 25, 2008:
Leaning towards Desertfox's idea, but before that was thinking of an apse that's actually a very big niche: inside you see an apse (incurving recess with an arch), but outside there's no corresponding bulge - wall v.thick, "apse" too shallow to stick out
Mary Carroll Richer LaFlèche Apr 25, 2008:
I agree with Simon, non distinta is an architectural feature
simon tanner Apr 25, 2008:
yes, that would 'tagliare la testa al toro', as they say
Mary Carroll Richer LaFlèche Apr 25, 2008:
I think Ivana will have to tell us which castle we are debating about, and maybe we can also see some pictures..and the truth will come forth!
simon tanner Apr 25, 2008:
unusual to refer to it as (in)distinctive. In fact, in the few examples of abside distinta I found on the web, distinta is not used as a term of praise, so why should non distinta be one of criticism?
simon tanner Apr 25, 2008:
desertfox may be right, but just can't help feeling that if the author wanted to say undistinguished/indistinctive, he/she would have put it differently (senza pregi, per es.). More to the point, an apse is simply an architectural feature, and it would be

Proposed translations

+4
2 hrs
Selected

Undistinctive apse (apsis)

Keep it simple. Google hits are vague.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2008-04-25 21:06:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Now it is clearer. It's an apsis that is so ruined that it is barely distinguisable. In Italian they could have made a bit of an effort and written "appena distingibile or appena visibile".
Peer comment(s):
agree Florcy
28 mins
Mille grazie!
agree Dana Rinaldi
40 mins
Mille grazie!
agree architran : An apse but a boring one. Yes, I'm coming over to your way of thinking
49 mins
Mille grazie!
agree Vladimir Micic
2 hrs
Mille grarzie!
neutral simon tanner : you might be right here, although I'm not convinced either way. In any case it would be INdistinctive; UNdistinctive has a different meaning (i.e. not discriminating,impartial)
5 hrs
OK.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
40 mins

an apse without distinctive features

not particulary refined
Something went wrong...
+1
46 mins

with no distinct apse

Strange expression! Not, as far as I am aware, a technical term in the strict sense; simply, I presume the author means that the apse is either very small or inexistent. Either way, 'no distinct apse' should cover it
Peer comment(s):
agree Mary Carroll Richer LaFlèche : you were right, no apse to be found in this tiny church!
10 hrs
so it would seem! thanks Carroll
Something went wrong...
49 mins

very shallow apse

I am disagreeing with Simon since if there's no distinct apse then there's no apse. On the other hand, a very shallow segmental apse might be visible from outside (or inside) But I'm not confident at all.
Reference:

http://www.cupramarittima.net/sanbasso/sb3.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral simon tanner : yeah, see your point; I'm not over-convinced either, to be honest
6 hrs
good debate though
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

non protruding, englobed apse

found a few ghits for both

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-04-25 16:35:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

virtually no apsis!! there is a fresco....
http://www.lucabaradello.it/images/friuli/zucco0384.jpg
Something went wrong...
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