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Ty Kendall 
Velika Britanija
Local time: 10:10
hebrejski na engleski
Gad Kohenov wrote:
Problem is that some of the good translators agree to work for less than before.
They are the ones to blame. If all good translators refuse to take work for less than a certain price per word, translation bureaux will see a decrease in the quality of the translations they receive and will have to deal with complaints from their clients.
The problems with translators Tye is that we are not ogranized and too individualistic.
We answer Kudoz questions by amateur translators, who use our answers to enhance their work and get more work from the satisfied clients.
....
We have to unite! Today it' a global world. Communication by SKYPE is easy and still free.
"United we Stand, Divided we Hang (fall)!
שלום
I agree Gad, I've even been contemplating going back into teaching for 2012, or at least supplementing translation with teaching for a while. Sad times....
אין מה לעשות
| | | | | Randy's Story | Jan 15, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
You don't see other professions rushing to work for less, regardless of the "economic climate".
'Randy's Story
'Randy Howland, 51, is on the job market again. After six months in a $10-an-hour customer service job, he was let go. It was an at-home call center type job, where speed was at a premium and Howland admits he spent too much time on each call. He says he was "too customer oriented."
'The job was far from perfect. The pay was low. With taxes taken out, it was less than he was bringing home on unemployment. The hours were difficult, 3 p.m. to midnight. His wife, Lisa, had to take a second job working at a beauty supply store to help pay the mortgage.
'"I am happy for her, but at the same time, I should be the one that's got the good job," says Howland on the morning Lisa is set to start her new job.
'Then, in November, Howland landed a job that he hoped would last. He would be doing customer service work for Express Scripts. But, after a month, he failed to get 90 percent right on a final exam, and he was let go once again.
'Howland has a master's degree in telecommunications management. He had a six-figure salary back in 2002. But that job and income level are distant memories. Since then, he has held a series of much lower-paying jobs — most recently as a debt collector, a position he found ethically uncomfortable.
'Howland's problem is his expertise was valuable in a telecom industry that doesn't exist anymore, at least as he knew it. ...'
-- http://www.npr.org/2011/04/15/133408014/the-road-back-to-work-randy-howland
| | | | Williamson
Velika Britanija
Local time: 10:10
flamanski na engleski
+ ...
Ty Kendall wrote:
...that my lawyer/accountant/dentist etc isn't sitting at home thinking "Golly, there's a recession on, I must lower my rates otherwise Ty will find a cheaper lawyer/accountant/dentist....etc."
My lawyer still asks 70£/75 euros per hour. My dentist asks about the same for a treatment of 25 minutes. Recession or no recession. Only translators except riduculous rates working for middlemen instead of looking for direct customers. Is Proz.com your only source of work? There are other sources if you are creative enough. Fortunately, Dutch is a niche-language where only newcomers who earn an extra ask low rates. If you go below 0.10-0.12 you don't earn a great deal after investments and taxes.
[Edited at 2012-01-15 16:58 GMT]
| | | | XX789 (X)
Holandija
Local time: 11:10
engleski na holandski
+ ...
I find it very ironic that you put this comment right after other translators note your working hours (and periods) might be considered quite long and that you admit yourself your rates are not at the top...
I'm talking from my own perspective. 0.07 euro per source may be acceptable for English>Punjabi, but it's definitely not acceptable for someone translating to Dutch. In The Netherlands or Belgium, such rate would give you very little purchasing power.
0.10 euro is indeed an average rate for English>Dutch. 0.12 euro is considered way above average, but still I get plenty of work for that rate too.
[Edited at 2012-01-15 16:56 GMT]
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Ty Kendall
Velika Britanija
Local time: 10:10
hebrejski na engleski
| Is this not a different story....? | Jan 15, 2012 |
Richard Bartholomew wrote:
'Randy's Story
'Randy Howland, 51, is on the job market again. After six months in a $10-an-hour customer service job, he was let go. It was an at-home call center type job, where speed was at a premium and Howland admits he spent too much time on each call. He says he was "too customer oriented."
'Howland has a master's degree in telecommunications management. He had a six-figure salary back in 2002. But that job and income level are distant memories. Since then, he has held a series of much lower-paying jobs — most recently as a debt collector, a position he found ethically uncomfortable.
.....
I'm not saying that the recession doesn't cause this type of situation:
a) "Randy" (bad name) loses his job
b) Randy is forced into lower paying jobs, menial work, work below his dignity, etc.
The story is rather vague on how he lost his "six figure" salaried job....other than to say the industry doesn't exist anymore..the telecommunications industry??? It's alive and kicking as far as I can tell....
...Anyway, it's a slightly different phenomenon. He lost his job and ended up in lower paying jobs, he didn't voluntarily, willingly lower his own salary....
....and I can practically guarantee that if he still had that wonderfully lucrative six figure salary job, hell would have froze over before he took a VOLUNTARY chunk out of it.
| | | | Vladimír Hoffman
Slovačka
Local time: 11:10
Član (2009)
engleski na slovački
+ ...
| Of course, nobody | Jan 15, 2012 |
doesn't not lower his rates just to delight his customers! But when you are starting to lose customers because you prices are too high (as you are informed), when your agency customers are also losing scheduled projects because companies start to make translations by themselves (real case) and when every new customer you manage to contact says to you that your colleagues offer less prices than you and the bills continue to coming each month and you are losing money month after month, then it is ... See more doesn't not lower his rates just to delight his customers! But when you are starting to lose customers because you prices are too high (as you are informed), when your agency customers are also losing scheduled projects because companies start to make translations by themselves (real case) and when every new customer you manage to contact says to you that your colleagues offer less prices than you and the bills continue to coming each month and you are losing money month after month, then it is at least advisable to consider if your prices in the specific period of time and on the specific market are not too high. I do not say that lowering prices is only or even preferable way to compete, but sometimes it happens to be UNAVOIDABLE way.
Alternatively, you can try to make marketing with long-term and unforeseenable effects and live from saved money (if you have any). Only not to lower rates, because they are sacred. Sorry, but it is "Let them eat cake" approach.
I do not like to complain about hard times and I am still able to cover my costs, but I am SURE that prices I have offered to my clients before crisis could not be kept longer.
In such situation, question of kind "Why did you not eat cake (=keep your prices high)" makes me a little nervous. Nothing personal.
Ty Kendall wrote:
....and I can practically guarantee that if he still had that wonderfully lucrative six figure salary job, hell would have froze over before he took a VOLUNTARY chunk out of it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | | Vladimír Hoffman
Slovačka
Local time: 11:10
Član (2009)
engleski na slovački
+ ...
this thread was created by a translator, who faces to short-term reduction of job offers and ask if it is start of recession. I experienced the reduction as early as in 2010 with pressure on prices starting already in 2009 (fortunately, there still were long-term contracts concluded in previous year). So, if question sounds: "Is this a recession?", I can answer: "Yes, this is STILL a recession".
Ty Kendall wrote:
....and I can practically guarantee that if he still had that wonderfully lucrative six figure salary job, hell would have froze over before he took a VOLUNTARY chunk out of it.
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Ty Kendall
Velika Britanija
Local time: 10:10
hebrejski na engleski
| That there's a recession is irrefutable.... | Jan 15, 2012 |
....what I don't agree with is the knee-jerk reaction of lowering rates in response to the mere fact of the recession...without any in-depth thought or calculations looking at economics and wider factors.
Charlie's blog makes for interesting reading, and I agree with him, I wouldn't go as far as to denounce every instance of rate lowering, this is far too simplistic, but the reducing of rates in a blind panic is not necessarily your salvation either.
Nice blog Ch... See more ....what I don't agree with is the knee-jerk reaction of lowering rates in response to the mere fact of the recession...without any in-depth thought or calculations looking at economics and wider factors.
Charlie's blog makes for interesting reading, and I agree with him, I wouldn't go as far as to denounce every instance of rate lowering, this is far too simplistic, but the reducing of rates in a blind panic is not necessarily your salvation either.
Nice blog Charlie. ▲ Collapse
| | | | XX789 (X)
Holandija
Local time: 11:10
engleski na holandski
+ ...
Indeed Charlie. Iron logic.
| | | | | lowering rates = suicide (pretty much) | Jan 15, 2012 |
Helena Grahn wrote:
What is your experience? Have you noticed anything different lately?
No, I haven't. Admittedly, I had a quiet period in July. Since then things have picked up and I have never been so busy. I was able to find new clients and I've been turning jobs down every week; I even have to outsource jobs every now and then. It probably has to do with the fact that I have very few clients in Europe. And I agree that it might also depend on the fields of expertise, language pairs, who your clients are, etc., so I do realize that some of our colleagues might be having a hard time finding work.
Still, if you are thinking about lowering your rates, only do it as a last resort. It simply sends the wrong message and it will be very difficult to raise them later.
Here is some food for thought. Last year I received a couple of unsolicited messages from a very experienced US translator. Let me paraphrase the message:
"Due to the economic crisis I have lowered my rates to USD X/word. I am a (...) certified court/ medical interpreter/translator. I have more than 30 years of experience in these fields."
Do you think it made me feel confident in this translator's skills? Doesn't he/she sound desperate? Do you think this message would encourage an outsourcer to contact this translator (especially if you know that the average rate for legal documents in his/her language pairs is 2*X per word, in other words at least twice as high)? My first impression was that he/she must not be very good.
By all means, drop your rates slightly for one project or two if you are having a hard time putting bread on the table, but remember that this isn't a long-term solution. The solution, as others have pointed out, is finding new clients at your current rates (ideally at higher rates), specializing, providing more services (added value), etc.
Helena Chavarria wrote:
However, I realise that if I want my work to be valued, I'm the only person who can do anything about it. There's a saying in Spanish that says something like, "Don't expect people to value you if you don't value yourself".
Absolutely.
[Edited at 2012-01-15 23:48 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-01-16 02:59 GMT]
| | | | | Since middle of 2011 | Jan 16, 2012 |
The demand for Albanian translation is also dropped down and personally I do not see any perspective these days to have translation requests back until we charge less than usuall. I agree with colleagues who suggested to ask for less and get jobs frequently.
Better less than nothing. Bills have to be paid and also Proz membership to be renewed .
Have a nice and lucky week everybody!
Greeting... See more The demand for Albanian translation is also dropped down and personally I do not see any perspective these days to have translation requests back until we charge less than usuall. I agree with colleagues who suggested to ask for less and get jobs frequently.
Better less than nothing. Bills have to be paid and also Proz membership to be renewed.
Have a nice and lucky week everybody!
Greetings from Albania ▲ Collapse
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Carole Paquis
Velika Britanija
Local time: 11:10
Član (2007)
engleski na francuski
| Recession, quiet times... | Jan 16, 2012 |
Since last Easter, I have never been so busy.
It is true that some "older" clients are sending less work but I have been contacted on numerous occasions and have gained quite a few new clients, who haven't argued my fees (they are set rather at the upper end of what is acceptable in my language combination, English into French).
All in all, new and old clients are keeping me very busy and I had to decline jobs in the autumn.
The last two weeks have been ju... See more Since last Easter, I have never been so busy.
It is true that some "older" clients are sending less work but I have been contacted on numerous occasions and have gained quite a few new clients, who haven't argued my fees (they are set rather at the upper end of what is acceptable in my language combination, English into French).
All in all, new and old clients are keeping me very busy and I had to decline jobs in the autumn.
The last two weeks have been just right, not too much, not too little.
However, what I do find is that clients are taking longer and longer to pay. 30 days used to be standard, now we are looking at 45 or 60 days. Small businesses with whom I have done business for years are now struggling to pay me on time. I have had some very honest conversations about that, as I deal directly with the business owner.
Carole PAQUIS ▲ Collapse
| | | | | My experience from the last recession | Jan 16, 2012 |
Currently I'm not feeling the crunch neither locally (Canada) nor in my language pairs (quite the contrary), but I do remember those scary 3-4 first months of 2009, when my work volume dropped 50-70%.
Back then, just like you're describing now, there was a rush of clients that kept pressuring me to lower my prices.
Unfortunately I did.
And you know what? Work did not pick up. Rather, in some instances, I realize now, my lower rates made me appear less profession... See more Currently I'm not feeling the crunch neither locally (Canada) nor in my language pairs (quite the contrary), but I do remember those scary 3-4 first months of 2009, when my work volume dropped 50-70%.
Back then, just like you're describing now, there was a rush of clients that kept pressuring me to lower my prices.
Unfortunately I did.
And you know what? Work did not pick up. Rather, in some instances, I realize now, my lower rates made me appear less professional and scared some new clients away.
Since 2010 I've been slowly increasing my rates and now they're 15% above my pre-recession prices. I've invested time in marketing how good I am, instead of how cheap I am. I've changed the tags on my website, completed more training, done more networking. And that seems to be a much more productive approach.
I know I shouldn't generalize from my very personal experience (representing two obscure language combinations), but my feeling is that in the majority of cases, lowering your prices to get ahead, is like peeing yourself to get warm. ▲ Collapse
| | | | wonita (X)
Kina
Local time: 07:10
| Nature of freelancing? | Jan 16, 2012 |
There is no recession in my part of the world, neither in China nor in Germany, but I’ve had a quiet January till now. I recall last November and December, when I was so busy with 2 huge projects that I had to turn down a few interesting offers.
No panic, this is just the way how freelancing is.
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