| Strana na temi: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Is this a recession? Objavljivač niti: Helena Grahn
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| It seems that in Portugal and Greece | Jan 14, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
You don't see other professions rushing to work for less, regardless of the "economic climate".
I don't know what it is about translators that makes them so self-defeating.
everybody is now working for less, up to 20% and more. I'm simply not convinced if a translator can maintain his/her rates in such a situation. Clients will tend to take advantage of this situation. And everybody knows that there will be always someone who takes the job.
A.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X) 
Velika Britanija
Local time: 05:03
portugalski na engleski
+ ...
| When did anyone last increase their rates? | Jan 14, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
You don't see other professions rushing to work for less, regardless of the "economic climate".
I don't know what it is about translators that makes them so self-defeating.
Well said Ty. People go out on the streets and demonstrate because of pay freezes. My rates have been frozen for YEARS, why on earth should I (or any of us) drop our rates?
| | | | Helena Grahn
Velika Britanija
Local time: 05:03
engleski na portugalski
+ ...
POKRETAČ TEME | No, Im thinking of getting some tenants. It should give more than working in a bar Haha | Jan 14, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson wrote:
It is a very short-term solution and the start of the slippery slope for the industry. Frankly you'd be better off going out and getting bar work to supplement your income until the translation work picks up rather than accepting ludicrously low rates. I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch Helena, all I can suggest is to market, market and market, take the opportunity to trawl through your contacts list and ensure each one is 'live'.
| | | | Vladimír Hoffman
Slovačka
Local time: 06:03
Član (2009)
engleski na slovački
+ ...
| The reason is | Jan 14, 2012 |
that many companies started to make translation by themselves (I lost at least one huge project due to the developmemt), many newly unemployed people started their own translation careers and many existing translators have panicked and reduced their prices. It is not about morality or fairness, but about what you are able to seize.
I candidly wish you to be able to seize as much tranlations as you can for as high price as you want.
Lisa Simpson wrote:
Well said Ty. People go out on the streets and demonstrate because of pay freezes. My rates have been frozen for YEARS, why on earth should I (or any of us) drop our rates?
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Ty Kendall
Velika Britanija
Local time: 05:03
hebrejski na engleski
| Only if you let them | Jan 14, 2012 |
Andrzej Lejman wrote:
Clients will tend to take advantage of this situation.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Francuska
Local time: 06:03
francuski na nemački
+ ...
| Concur with Ty... | Jan 14, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
Andrzej Lejman wrote:
Clients will tend to take advantage of this situation.
only if you let them and tend to oblige in any way.
Also... such companies should not be named clients, but rather [fill in the blank].
I also want to put some emphasis on the fact that "recessions" are not a product of mere chance and that many people in the world actually *work* to make them happen.
Also and if one takes the case of European low-rates countries, there is a clear trend about those countries being bankrupt or heading towards bankruptcy (of course, it MAY and it WILL take some time until they stand before the abyss but it happens nevertheless.)
I had my personal "confirmation" of this yesterday - namely when it became official that France had lost its Standard & Poor's AAA for an AA+ (downwards pressure on prices as per translation services have been monnaie courante for some years now. How about 0.06 €/word for a high-profile PR brochure, with no QA on the agency's side?)
Of course, individuals within a country are not representative of the country itself... G*d forbid.
[Edited at 2012-01-14 17:26 GMT]
| | | | | I don't believe | Jan 14, 2012 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Ty Kendall wrote:
Andrzej Lejman wrote:
Clients will tend to take advantage of this situation.
only if you let them and tend to oblige in any way.
Also... such companies should not be named clients, but rather [fill in the blank].
that the economic situation in Portugal will have no impact just on translation industry, whereas other people earn already 20 or 30% less.
Companies will cut costs and translations are well suitable for this. You can always look for a cheaper translator and you will always find one, you can go to MT and post-editing etc.
I'm still wondering why people in countries like Portugal or Greece don't recognize how difficult is their position.
Under normal circumstances they would have to work for the next 30 or 50 years without any pay... or finally declare bankrupt.
A.
| | | | Ty Kendall
Velika Britanija
Local time: 05:03
hebrejski na engleski
| The beauty of a global marketplace... | Jan 14, 2012 |
Andrzej Lejman wrote:
Companies will cut costs and translations are well suitable for this. You can always look for a cheaper translator and you will always find one, you can go to MT and post-editing etc.
...is that the problems of one country (Portugal or Greece or....) are negligible, there are plenty of other countries out there, other continents even.
With my language pair especially, the economic situation of Portugal will be but a ripple (if anything at all).
...The problem with "cheaper translators, ...MT and post-editing" is quality. If a company wants to cut corners on their translations then they'll pay for it with sub-standard quality. There will always be a market for reasonably priced good quality translations. A race to the bottom is not the answer.
In addition, if "translations are well suitable for this", then this is only because translators are all too willing to acquiesce.
[Edited at 2012-01-14 18:01 GMT]
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Ty Kendall wrote:
Andrzej Lejman wrote:
Companies will cut costs and translations are well suitable for this. You can always look for a cheaper translator and you will always find one, you can go to MT and post-editing etc.
...is that the problems of one country (Portugal or Greece or....) are negligible, there are plenty of other countries out there, other continents even.
when we think not only about translation and the industry.
Because of the mess caused by those countries I have to pay ca. 25% more (exchange rate) for my holiday abroad, gas, food, or even computers and all electronic stuff.
It's true partially, when we think about translation and the industry. I have no clients in Poland, all my clients come from EU, USA, Canada, even Japan or Arabic countries. But this is possible because our economy is sound and there is high demand for DE>PL and EN>PL translations.
But how much may be the demand for PT-EN-PT translations now? This is what I'm trying to say from the very beginning - how much efforts Helena would do, they may bring not much in results since she cannot generate the demand.
Adhering to high prices may be not the best strategy here. Once again, things have changed in some countries.
A.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Francuska
Local time: 06:03
francuski na nemački
+ ...
Andrzej Lejman wrote:
(.../...)
Companies will cut costs and translations are well suitable for this. You can always look for a cheaper translator and you will always find one, you can go to MT and post-editing etc.
I'm still wondering why people in countries like Portugal or Greece don't recognize how difficult is their position.
Under normal circumstances they would have to work for the next 30 or 50 years without any pay... or finally declare bankrupt.
A.
Clearly put, I don't give a damn if companies go to MT + post-editing - the problem is theirs, not mine.
Have you ever seen prices drop down as a consumer or in your C2B relationships? Obviously the answer would be a big, fat NO.
As an example (and for France at least), most foreign -i.e. non-French- airlines offering low-cost fares are funded by the government, a bit of a scandal if I may point to this aspect of the question.
So basically and from my point of view, someone somewhere has to pay for lower prices... because they are artificially low and lowered.
[Edited at 2012-01-14 18:41 GMT]
| | | | Helena Chavarria
Španija
Local time: 06:03
Član (2011)
španski na engleski
+ ...
| How much IS a fair rate? | Jan 14, 2012 |
This is one of my main worries. I really don't know how much to charge. Ever since I started working for my agency- nearly four years ago - they have paid me an average of €0.03 per word (sometimes slightly more, sometimes - although I hate to say it - slightly less!). It seems to be a case of, "You can either take it, or leave it. If you don't take the job, someone else will." Unfortunately, this is exactly the same rate as before the euro came into use.
People talk about charging anyt... See more This is one of my main worries. I really don't know how much to charge. Ever since I started working for my agency- nearly four years ago - they have paid me an average of €0.03 per word (sometimes slightly more, sometimes - although I hate to say it - slightly less!). It seems to be a case of, "You can either take it, or leave it. If you don't take the job, someone else will." Unfortunately, this is exactly the same rate as before the euro came into use.
People talk about charging anything from €0.08 to €0.12 per word but whenever I have submitted a quote asking for anything more than €0.06, I have not been chosen to do the job.
As for work, throughout 2011 I worked practically every day, sometimes doing a more than one text in the same day, yet it wasn't until yesterday I received my first job for 2012.
I'm seriously considering trying to find my own clients and charging them what I think I'm worth!
[Edited at 2012-01-14 18:49 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Velika Britanija
Local time: 05:03
portugalski na engleski
+ ...
| Portugal is not the only country that speaks Portuguese | Jan 14, 2012 |
Andrzej Lejman wrote:
But how much may be the demand for PT-EN-PT translations now? This is what I'm trying to say from the very beginning - how much efforts Helena would do, they may bring not much in results since she cannot generate the demand.
I had a noticeable dramatic increase in demand for Portuguese last year, which admittedly petered out towards the end of the year but was significantly greater than in any previous year. It may be because my variant of Portuguese is Brazilian and that country is going through happier times (economically speaking) than Portugal, I can't say as I don't know if Helena's Portuguese is European, Brazilian, Mozambican... Anyway, these things come in waves, I keep my fingers crossed that a wave is on its way to Helena.
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XXXphxxx (X)
Velika Britanija
Local time: 05:03
portugalski na engleski
+ ...
| Well I think you should | Jan 14, 2012 |
Helena Chavarria wrote:
This is one of my main worries. I really don't know how much to charge. Ever since I started working for my agency- nearly four years ago - they have paid me an average of €0.03 per word (sometimes slightly more, sometimes - although I hate to say it - slightly less!).
I'm seriously considering trying to find my own clients and charging them what I think I'm worth!
[Edited at 2012-01-14 18:48 GMT]
I'm sorry but € 0.03 is a scandalously low rate and no professional translator should be working for that rate.
| | | | Ty Kendall
Velika Britanija
Local time: 05:03
hebrejski na engleski
| There are other options.... | Jan 14, 2012 |
But how much may be the demand for PT-EN-PT translations now?
Portugal may be in trouble, but Brazil is not. In fact, they are continuing to climb those economic league tables...(I think they just overtook us, the UK)...
Admittedly, they speak a different variant of Portuguese, but surely such an emerging economy should generate a fair bit of business....? (And if Helena only uses Portugal-Portuguese, then she could theoretically still translate PT-Brazilian>English if she didn't feel comfortable translating into it).
Adhering to high prices may be not the best strategy here.
...but there are other strategies, other than the most self-deprecating one of lowering rates. There's diversification. Offering additional services. Venturing into new markets, new specialisations, new language variants (Brazilian Portuguese)...there are 1000 things I would consider before I even allowed the thought of reduced rates to enter my mind.
In addition, a weak economy doesn't necessarily entail less work. I have friends who work in the Greek < > English pair (a pair you might expect to be in dire need of work given the state of the Greek economy) but they report to me no such desperation (and actually seem quite busy).
[Edited at 2012-01-14 18:55 GMT]
| | | | Helena Chavarria
Španija
Local time: 06:03
Član (2011)
španski na engleski
+ ...
| Someone has finally confirmed my suspicions! | Jan 14, 2012 |
Lisa, thank you for confirming my suspicions. Now I know I really need to spread my wings.
Last year I had absolutely no free time, but seeing as lately my workload seems to have decreased, I will invest the extra time I have in finding my own clients.
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