| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Why do they often want native speakers? Thread poster: Ruxi
|
|---|
| Not to depress.. (to Ruxi) | Apr 5, 2004 |
Ruxi,
I see your point. Everyone has to live and you have the right to fight for a place in the translation world. I assume Romanian is your mother tongue. It is also one of the "rare" languages not many translators can master. It is a great asset; please, don't spoil it by sounding or acting in a non-professional way. With Romania just about to join the European Union and big Romanian populations all over Europe, I am sure you can make your living as a Romanian translator.![]() ... See more Ruxi,
I see your point. Everyone has to live and you have the right to fight for a place in the translation world. I assume Romanian is your mother tongue. It is also one of the "rare" languages not many translators can master. It is a great asset; please, don't spoil it by sounding or acting in a non-professional way. With Romania just about to join the European Union and big Romanian populations all over Europe, I am sure you can make your living as a Romanian translator. ▲ Collapse
| | | | bergazy 
Croatia
Local time: 10:27
Croatian to Italian
+ ...
| I'm surprised | Apr 6, 2004 |
Josef Konrad - Non-native speaker of English
Emil Cioran - Non-native speaker of French
Samuel Becket - Non-native speaker of French
Cornelis Vreeswijk- Non-native speaker of Swedish,
Vladimir Nabokov-Non native speaker of English ...
They were superhumans or aliens or even magicians, don't you think?
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:27
Flemish to English
+ ...
| Translating into the mother-tongue : it all depends | Apr 6, 2004 |
Translating into the native language only: It all depends where you have grown up: When after Roumania will have entered the EU, our dear friend Ruxi will move to Brusssels (he/she ?) will find out that 10 km South of Brussels, there is a residential village, where if you put you foot on one side of that village, the mother-tongue is French and if you put your foot on the other side the mother-tongue is Dutch/Flemish or a dialect of the latter. (For those who translate into Dutch have a look at ... See more Translating into the native language only: It all depends where you have grown up: When after Roumania will have entered the EU, our dear friend Ruxi will move to Brusssels (he/she ?) will find out that 10 km South of Brussels, there is a residential village, where if you put you foot on one side of that village, the mother-tongue is French and if you put your foot on the other side the mother-tongue is Dutch/Flemish or a dialect of the latter. (For those who translate into Dutch have a look at www.hoehel.be)
Children, who have grown up there have grown up in a bilingual environment.
Mother-tongue only?
So Germans from Rheinland -Pfalz should only translate into Pfälzisch or from Schwabenland into Schwabisch?
Strictly speaking, in some regions a dialect is the mother-tongue and the standard language the "suprastrata" (language which comes on top).
There is a difference between technical translation and the translation of poetry. For the latter, I would favour the mother-tongue-only principle.
With technical translation, you have to understand what you are talking about.
What about the education factor?
If I may be so "bold" : According to the native-tongue only first command of translation, my plumber is qualified to translate into his native language?
What if you have your translations revised by an educated native speaker of the target-language? Of course, in that case you earn less.
Mother-tongue only, it all depends on the situation, the content of the text and whether or not you work alone or together with other native speakers of the target-language(s) you offer.
[Edited at 2004-04-06 13:18] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Irene N
United States
Local time: 03:27
English to Russian
+ ...
| Mrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-meow!:) | Apr 6, 2004 |
Marko and Williamson, thank you for the voices of wisdom. It is my impression that nobody did promote poor translation for whatever reasons, and nobody said that the task in question can be accomplished without proper experience and knowledge and approval obtained step by step through the years of hard work and learning.
By all means, it is so much easier to translate into a native language...
Cheers,
Irina
[Edited at 2004-04-06 10:01]
| | |
|
|
|
sylvie malich (X)
Germany
Local time: 10:27
German to English
| And your point? | Apr 6, 2004 |
Marko Kovacic wrote:
Josef Konrad - Non-native speaker of English
Emil Cioran - Non-native speaker of French
Samuel Becket - Non-native speaker of French
Cornelis Vreeswijk- Non-native speaker of Swedish,
Vladimir Nabokov-Non native speaker of English ...
They were superhumans or aliens or even magicians, don't you think?
Are you saying their books were published unedited?
| | | |
sylvie malich wrote:
Are you saying their books were published unedited?
My thoughts also.
There may be a few exceptions, but I personally find it irresponsible and unprofessional to translate into a language not your native.
| | | | Irene N
United States
Local time: 03:27
English to Russian
+ ...
Honestly, I did not expect the editing part to be a subject for a discussion at all. In my opinion, everything must be proofread/edited, regardless of source/target language, translator's experience, nationality, native language etc. A good editor is a treasure. I believe the only instance when a job can be sent to the client without editing is to obtain a written request from the client specifying the delivery of the job "as is" due to time constraints, most popular cause for such requests, and... See more Honestly, I did not expect the editing part to be a subject for a discussion at all. In my opinion, everything must be proofread/edited, regardless of source/target language, translator's experience, nationality, native language etc. A good editor is a treasure. I believe the only instance when a job can be sent to the client without editing is to obtain a written request from the client specifying the delivery of the job "as is" due to time constraints, most popular cause for such requests, and only with words "unedited, draft translation" in the footer. An extremely undesirable but sometimes unavoidable situation.
The text itself is not done by the editor though. Native editor on top of the food chain for literary translations - it would be ridiculous to even imagine things in a different way. With this I agree whole-heartedly, it seems so obvious. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 10:27
German to English
+ ...
The question is:
Can you write to a high standard, i.e. coherently, with correct grammar and a good style?
If not, don't.
Forget the rest. Never mind what dialect your mother spoke, where you were born or educated, whether "native speakers" are equally incompetent, or whether you'll otherwise be unemployed. All those points are irrelevant. Either you can write to a high standard, or you can't.
Exceptions? Yes.
What counts is the e... See more The question is:
Can you write to a high standard, i.e. coherently, with correct grammar and a good style?
If not, don't.
Forget the rest. Never mind what dialect your mother spoke, where you were born or educated, whether "native speakers" are equally incompetent, or whether you'll otherwise be unemployed. All those points are irrelevant. Either you can write to a high standard, or you can't.
Exceptions? Yes.
What counts is the end result, so if your work doesn't meet the grade, by all means have it revised so that it does. That isn't cheating, it's good practice.
If the translation is just "for information", and - very important - the customer is aware of the fact, then bad grammar and style may well be acceptable. This is particularly true when the customer is prepared to accept a badly written text in order to have it on time or at an affordable price. Such a translation should be marked "sub-standard", but if the customer is prepared to accept it and you're prepared to supply it, fair enough.
This latter exception is quite categorically NOT a licence to write technical documentation to a poor standard. In Western Europe, at least, sub-standard technical documentation is by no means acceptable, and consumers are fed up with documentation which evidently only needed to be "just about good enough". Translators are professional writers; if it's worth reading, it should be written properly.
No more excuses!
Marc ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 11:27
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
| Non-native sources | Apr 6, 2004 |
MarcPrior wrote:
This latter exception is quite categorically NOT a licence to write technical documentation to a poor standard. In Western Europe, at least, sub-standard technical documentation is by no means acceptable, and consumers are fed up with documentation which evidently only needed to be \"just about good enough\". Translators are professional writers; if it\'s worth reading, it should be written properly.
No more excuses!
Marc
As I pointed out before: a lot of technical English documents are written by non-natives. That\'s a fact in Germany, Japan etc. Only a fraction of products are invented and built in English speaking countries. Fortunately they are mostly revised by natives before delivery to further translation, but not always.
In Europe we do not have the same prejudice about bilinguals as in anglo-saxon countries. It\'s a different culture. Many Europeans aquire equal fluency in two or more language, but a second opinion is always needed to improve on any text.
| | | | Irene N
United States
Local time: 03:27
English to Russian
+ ...
| Thank you, Marc | Apr 6, 2004 |
MarcPrior wrote:
The question is:
Can you write to a high standard, i.e. coherently, with correct grammar and a good style?
If not, don't.
Forget the rest.
Ruxi, may I make a suggestion? Henry gave you a very wise advice - the first, long and painful stage for a translator to master his/her skills is to translate into the native language. But don't stop at it - in your spare moments do it for yourself, compare your attempts to the native writers' products, practice, try to translate a passage from a book that has already been translated and published by a reputable publishing house. Again, do not get discouraged if your own judgement will knock you off your feet even before somebody else will criticize you. This is the best therapy, get up and keep going. There are so many ways to practice. Write in English to your English-speaking friends. The more you learn, the tougher your self-imposed requirements will become. I will never, ever accept a serious legal translation into English even though my agents trust me with jobs for very high-ranked end clients who appreciate my translatons into Russian, and I do it very fast, I do not need to turn to dictionaries every 5 minutes. 10 years ago I thought I would eventually:). Your time will come, I'm sure:). Circumstances permitting, save a handful of euros and travel to English-speaking countries, logistically it will be much easier for you soon. Try to combine translation and interpretation work. Best of the luck and my sincere wishes of success and prosperity.
Native editor is great!!!!! No doubt.
I rest my case. Thanks, everyone.
| | | | NGK
United States
Local time: 03:27
| World Literature Hall of Shame | Apr 6, 2004 |
Marko Kovacic wrote:
Josef Konrad - Non-native speaker of English
Emil Cioran - Non-native speaker of French
Samuel Becket - Non-native speaker of French
Cornelis Vreeswijk- Non-native speaker of Swedish,
Vladimir Nabokov-Non native speaker of English ...
They were superhumans or aliens or even magicians, don't you think?
... not to forget Milan Kundera, Joseph Brodsky, Edwidge Danticat, Stuart Merill, Eugene Ionesco, Ayn Rand, Arthur Koestler, Oscar Wilde, Anais Nin, Julien Green, Wole Soyinka ........
Shame on them!
| | | | CHENOUMI (X)
English to French
+ ...
| A bit baffled... | Apr 6, 2004 |
Norbert Gunther Kramer wrote:
... not to forget ..... Edwidge Danticat, ...........
Shame on them!
May I ask what's Edwidge's crime?
Do you think she would have won so many literary prizes as a very young talent without any merit?
¿¿¿???¿¿¿
| | |
|
|
|
DGK T-I
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:27
Georgian to English
+ ...
| Norbert was joking - with the message that..... | Apr 6, 2004 |
CHENOUMI wrote: Norbert Gunther Kramer wrote:
... not to forget ..... Edwidge Danticat, ...........
Shame on them! May I ask what's Edwidge's crime? Do you think she would have won so many literary prizes as a very young talent without any merit? ¿¿¿???¿¿¿
....it wasn't a crime, because they knew what they were doing
Giuli~
[Edited at 2004-04-06 21:18]
| | | | CHENOUMI (X)
English to French
+ ...
| Adding to the Hall of Shame - Edwidge D A N T I C A T !! | Apr 6, 2004 |
Norbert Gunther Kramer wrote:
... not to forget Milan Kundera, Joseph Brodsky, Edwidge Danticat, Stuart Merill, Eugene Ionesco, Ayn Rand, Arthur Koestler, Oscar Wilde, Anais Nin, Julien Green, Wole Soyinka ........
Shame on them!
Sorry Norbert, I didn't catch your very subtle humor. In fact, very apparent. Shame on me !!
Here is the remarkable young LADY.
We forgot to crown Noam Chomsky as a hall-of-shamer...
For more info on Edwidge and her distinguished best-sellers, see the following sites too numerous to cite here.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q="Edwidge%20Danticat"&btnG=Google%20Search
http://images.google.com/images?q="Edwidge%20Danticat"&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google%20Search
Edwidge Danticat
A site with excellent essays about Danticat written by students of the University of Central Florida.
reach.ucf.edu/~aml3930/danticat/
EducETH: Danticat, Edwidge
information on Edwidge Danticat and Edwidge Danticat's books suitable for class
reading, teaching information, teachers' and students' comments, requests. ...
www.educeth.ch/english/readinglist/danticate/
Danticat.html
Edwidge Danticat. Biography. Edwidge Danticat was born in Port-au-Prince
Haiti in 1969. Her father immigrated to the United ...
www.emory.edu/ENGLISH/Bahri/Danticat.html
Article on Edwidge Danticat
Modern Haiti's Pride and Pain. From USA Today. At 12, Edwidge Danticat
spoke almost no English. At 26, she has been nominated for ...
www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti/ literature/danticat.htm
A Haitian Book Guide | Edwidge Danticat | Livres Haitiens | Liv ...
... Haiti 2004. author: Edwidge Danticat. Edwidge Danticat. The Dew Breaker
The Dew Breaker Coming March 2004 - Pre-Order Now buy it on ...
www.kreyol.com/edwidge-danticat.html
Edwidge Danticat | Books@Random
... At an astonishingly young age, Edwidge Danticat has become one of our most celebrated
new novelists, a writer who evokes the wonder, terror, and heartache of ...
www.randomhouse.com/features/danticat/
Let's wonder.
They were superhumans or aliens or even magicians, don't you think?
All of the above...I think.
[Edited at 2004-04-06 22:09]
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 11:27
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
| Re I'm surprised | Apr 7, 2004 |
And how many of them are here on ProZ, among us, by your estimate?
Uldis, just wondering
Marko Kovacic wrote:
Josef Konrad - Non-native speaker of English
Emil Cioran - Non-native speaker of French
Samuel Becket - Non-native speaker of French
Cornelis Vreeswijk- Non-native speaker of Swedish,
Vladimir Nabokov-Non native speaker of English ...
They were superhumans or aliens or even magicians, don't you think?
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Why do they often want native speakers? | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
| | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
