| Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: Do you pay attention to grammatical errors when others speak/write? Auteur du fil: ProZ.com Staff
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Allison Wright (X) 
Portugal
Local time: 06:13
| Notice, but seldom correct | Jul 4, 2011 |
I am very sensitive to speech patterns of others in my native English. Moreover, I remember them. I can recall specific grammatical errors made by people I have not seen for twenty years, along with their personal "favourite phrases" (know what I mean?, etc.).
I detest far more the habit of some to substitute "thing", "thingamajig", "whatchamacallit" for the correct name of an object. I am always quick to confirm what the person is referring to, and ask, "Do you mean the egg beater/... See more I am very sensitive to speech patterns of others in my native English. Moreover, I remember them. I can recall specific grammatical errors made by people I have not seen for twenty years, along with their personal "favourite phrases" (know what I mean?, etc.).
I detest far more the habit of some to substitute "thing", "thingamajig", "whatchamacallit" for the correct name of an object. I am always quick to confirm what the person is referring to, and ask, "Do you mean the egg beater/hand brake/garden fork/TV remote, etc.?"
I seldom correct anyone's grammar for its own sake though. None of us is perfect. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Yes, comes naturally | Jul 4, 2011 |
It is impossible not to pick up on grammatical errors, but I generally only tend to correct them when asked and/or with people I know well (hubby, children, close friends, etc.). Some people take great offense to being corrected, even if it is in their own best interest.
| | | | Thayenga
Allemagne
Local time: 07:13
Membre (2009)
anglais vers allemand
+ ...
| I try not to, but... | Jul 4, 2011 |
I simply can't help it.
As far as correcting the speaker...
Mary Worby wrote:
I'll correct, for example, my children or foreigners who I know are keen to learn.... But generally I just wince to myself and carry on!
Some people are really grateful when I correct them because they consider any corrections a great help in learning the language. And they do find it sad that most people don't correct them - for whatever reason the "silent" listeners might have.
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DianeGM wrote:
Yes to noticing ... huge, fat NO to correcting.
Yes, I do notice grammar mistakes in Portuguese and... in French!!!
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Richard Asher
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 06:13
néerlandais vers anglais
+ ...
| The errors are music to my ears! | Jul 4, 2011 |
I instinctively notice all such errors, but rather than get angry or try to correct people I rejoice in the fact that there are still a lot of people out there making such mistakes.
If the average person had the attention to detail and knowledge of grammar/spelling that we translators boast, then we'd all be out of work.
So keep the mistakes coming!
| | | | neilmac
Espagne
Local time: 07:13
espagnol vers anglais
+ ...
SPOKEN English:
I sometimes (not always) notice grammatical mistakes - it depends on how much attention I may be paying at any given time. Calling attention to them also depends on whether or not I think it is important/worthwhile/overly pernickety... or who the person in question is.
In the real world, native speech is not always be grammatically correct anyway (e.g. use "of there is/are" is commonly ridden over roughshod) so I usually abstain there too, unless specifically reques... See more SPOKEN English:
I sometimes (not always) notice grammatical mistakes - it depends on how much attention I may be paying at any given time. Calling attention to them also depends on whether or not I think it is important/worthwhile/overly pernickety... or who the person in question is.
In the real world, native speech is not always be grammatically correct anyway (e.g. use "of there is/are" is commonly ridden over roughshod) so I usually abstain there too, unless specifically requested to correct them.
WRITTEN English:
I will usually call attention to errors if the person is a native speaker, especially if they are supposed to be some kind of "authority figure" (for example I have known some barely literate native speakers who ended up working in TEFL). If they are translators, I may nag them about style too...
Note: the "may and might" issue is not easy for non-natives to grasp and not really all that important in the majority of cases, and I don't recall ever having heard it misused by a fully functional native speaker.
Off topic, I am glad to see that there are some even more extreme pendants than myself out there, I was beginning to worry about it... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 23:13
néerlandais vers anglais
+ ...
| Notice but don't correct | Jul 4, 2011 |
I notice errors but I don't correct speakers unless I 'm absolutely sure that they will appreciate it. I do correct errors in writing, though, as that is often part of my job. The mistakes that bother me the most are "people that" and "companies who" - I hear those mistakes even from highly educated people, in the media, etc.
| | | | neilmac
Espagne
Local time: 07:13
espagnol vers anglais
+ ...
| Not always the best option | Jul 4, 2011 |
[quote]Thayenga wrote:
Some people are really grateful when I correct them because they consider any corrections a great help in learning the language. And they do find it sad that most people don't correct them - for whatever reason the "silent" listeners might have.
From a psychological viewpoint, late 20th century language teaching theories posited that correction (especially if it involves interrupting the speaker) can have negative effects ON learning [example of belated self-correction there!] and be demotivating, so concepts such as gentle or timely correction were introduced. Even though someone tells you they want to be corrected, this may not actually be the case.
In classroom situations, most current theories recommend allowing students to make mistakes and correcting them a posteriori, and as far as possible, doing so anonymously.
In my own experience, I found that some cultural groups or nationalities tended to seek (and appreciate) correction more than others. Swiss, Germans and Japanese students spring to mind in this category, but I can only surmise that this is because of their own educational system and how they see it.
[Edited at 2011-07-04 15:53 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-07-05 09:29 GMT]
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neilmac
Espagne
Local time: 07:13
espagnol vers anglais
+ ...
| Not always a mistake | Jul 4, 2011 |
Tina Vonhof wrote:
I do correct errors in writing, though, as that is often part of my job. The mistakes that bother me the most are "people that" and "companies who" - I hear those mistakes even from highly educated people, in the media, etc.
"The "companies who..." form is NOT an error per se, rather an example of a perfectly valid linguistic device called personification, defined thus: "the attribution of a personal nature or human characteristics to something nonhuman, or the representation of an abstract quality in human form."
As for the "people that...", I usually told my EFL students that it was an alternative to "people who...", as it is commonly used by many native speakers. Whether it can be termed "in/correct" in a language like "English as she is spoke" which has no Royal Academy or similar "official" authority to rule on the question seems moot...
[Edited at 2011-07-04 15:54 GMT]
| | | | | Accuracy vs fluency | Jul 4, 2011 |
It's always a delicate balance to achieve, and something that as an EFL teacher and teacher trainer has had to receive a lot of consideration: to correct or not! Constant interruptions means discouraging students and stopping the flow which may lead to some fluency. I like to think that I found that balance in teaching situations. Elsewhere and now, I try and keep my trap shut because it is not always appropriate, and the rapport that I would have developed with students in order to correct effe... See more It's always a delicate balance to achieve, and something that as an EFL teacher and teacher trainer has had to receive a lot of consideration: to correct or not! Constant interruptions means discouraging students and stopping the flow which may lead to some fluency. I like to think that I found that balance in teaching situations. Elsewhere and now, I try and keep my trap shut because it is not always appropriate, and the rapport that I would have developed with students in order to correct effectively is likely not to have been established. I do, however, roar at the television constantly, and not just because of bad subtitling/dubbing.
On a different tack, I think our perception of grammatical accuracy as being the measure of a speaker's competence is sometimes a little out of proportion. As I think has already been mentioned, as wordwrights (does it exist, may I use it?) we are perhaps oversensitive to what we perceive as wrong, but it is not in all circumstances that 100% accuracy is vital (although of course in our profession, yes it is). The great Michael Swan caused a sharp collective intake of breath at a talk I went to a few years ago by suggesting that our obsession with correcting the (absence of) the "3rd person s" in the present simple was misplaced. He argued at length and convincingly that while not using this ending can result in bringing down your marks at many levels of English exams, it rarely has any effect on the effectiveness of communication. Likewise I would say that a specialist may notice that a given speaker has scant control of English grammar, whereas a non-specialist might be impressed by the same speaker's fluency (am I OK there Gilla?!).
My conclusion is that grammatical errors are often not an impediment to communication, but that fully effective communication can be hindered by their presence, since the general impression conveyed by inaccurate speech and writing is not professional; the errors can be distracting, in particular if within a formal and professional context.
I wonder how many dubious structures I have included above....
Cheers
Noni ▲ Collapse
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The worst, IMHO, is a blog post that supposedly teaches you how to correct common grammatical mistakes but actually teaches you incorrect grammar. Especially if you leave a comment to correct them but they neither approve your comments, nor correct their blog post, nor get back to you by email.
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Michael Harris wrote: DianeGM wrote:
Yes to noticing ... huge, fat NO to correcting.
Agreed. Correcting others' grammar when they are talking/writing to you is, in my opinion, the height of rudeness.
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| cultural difference? | Jul 4, 2011 |
Hilary Davies Shelby wrote:
Agreed. Correcting others' grammar when they are talking/writing to you is, in my opinion, the height of rudeness.
I’m not sure if I can agree to it, and I’m not speaking from personal experience.
My French teachers have consistently ranted about one thing that they don’t like about North America: that no one corrects their grammatical mistakes. The result, they claim, is that their English is not improved.
[Edited at 2011-07-04 19:13 GMT]
| | | | Valeria Fuma
Argentine
Local time: 02:13
anglais vers espagnol
+ ...
| Yes, can't help it but don't correct them... | Jul 4, 2011 |
... unless they ask me to do it or unless I think it's imperative (e.g. if some friend is showing me a cover letter they intend to send for a job opportunity, etc.), because I know some people find it annoying and snobbish.
| | | | Valeria Fuma
Argentine
Local time: 02:13
anglais vers espagnol
+ ...
| Couldn't agree more!! | Jul 4, 2011 |
Richard Asher wrote:
I instinctively notice all such errors, but rather than get angry or try to correct people I rejoice in the fact that there are still a lot of people out there making such mistakes.
If the average person had the attention to detail and knowledge of grammar/spelling that we translators boast, then we'd all be out of work.
So keep the mistakes coming!
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