| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | How Do You Charge For The Following?? Your Rates, Please! Автор темы: Jessica_ph
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Arnaud HERVE 
Франция
Local time: 23:50
английский => французский
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| The name is Plissken | Feb 19, 2009 |
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
Thanks, Arnaud! I also read how people destroyed you completely and got so angry, at the thread "We MUST quote in low-price jobs with OUR prices!".
Still alive though.
And some day I'll shut down the Internet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed6Yr81jZ6g
| | | | | Oh my goodness... | Feb 19, 2009 |
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
Standard translation (per word): $ 0.03
Minimum Charge: $ 0.03
Oh my goodness. What can I say if you actively promote low rates "just because Peru is so cheap"... :-/
Maybe we should all move to Peru and have a life folks!
| | | | | Peru in 10 years time | Feb 19, 2009 |
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote: Welcome to Peru!  A country in which not many people speak any other language rather than incorrect Spanish (full of slang or misspelled words) and some indigenous languages, with hunger for translations when foreigners, either individuals or companies, visit us (I think only 4% of the population knows English; forget about other languages!). I had the luck to study in a bilingual school and to travel to several countries.
According to some reports, Peru is growing at a rate of at least 5% every year. Let's not discuss right now how much of that comes from destroying natural forests (that's a very different topic), but let's assume it stays this way: how long do you think you will be able to keep those rates? Inflation is bound to come, and you may think that yours is a very good income now, but in 10 years time you could be in trouble.
In Spain, about 10 years ago a majority of translators counted their blessings if they could charge 5 cents of euro... and now see that they barely make a normal living with that even working very hard. Just think of what could happen in Peru very soon and plan for it.
| | | | Ligia Dias Costa
Португалия
Local time: 22:50
английский => португальский
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ЛОКАЛИЗАТОР САЙТА
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
Standard translation (per word): $ 0.03
Minimum Charge: $ 0.03
Oh my goodness. What can I say if you actively promote low rates "just because Peru is so cheap"... :-/ Maybe we should all move to Peru and have a life folks!
I think I miss Felipe...
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| Destroyed completely? | Feb 19, 2009 |
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote: Arnaud HERVE wrote:
Don't worry too much about replying in these forums, Cristina. There is often an insufficient level of consideration, concentration or documentation.
Do what you must do in your own circumstances. You are the one who knows better. Thanks, Arnaud! I also read how people destroyed you completely and got so angry, at the thread "We MUST quote in low-price jobs with OUR prices!". I believe we all have an opinion and it should be respected. If people are attacked in such a way, then they are not willing to participate in this kind of fora. By the way, I agree with everything you said at that thread. Regards!
As the owner of that thread, I think nobody "destroyed" anyone. What kind of language is that Cristina? Wasn't Arnaud free to express his opinions? Was he thrown out of the conversation? Was he insulted in any sense?
Please, let's be careful with the language we use. We are supposed to be able to express our opinions without being offensive.
Cristina, do you agree with Arnaud's first words in that thread you mention:
Arnaud said:
I'm not sure using proz.com threads to develop a personal and imageful rhapsody of contempt make them more relevant as to facts.
Probably not the best way of jumping into the conversation, huh?
| | | | | Talking is always good | Feb 19, 2009 |
Ligia Dias Costa wrote:
I think I miss Felipe...
Ligia, why are you Portuguese people that way?
(This is a personal, Spanish-nationalist attack! Please complain!)
Now, seriously: talking and sharing points of view is always good. We learn a lot from each other. Of course sometimes it's just not easy to understand different ways of saying the same thing. I am also sure that we all want to promote the future of translation, and each of us has own theories about it.
I'm Spanish, and I know it's sometimes hard to avoid a quick, harsh reaction to something we consider plain wrong. I am not free of sin at all and you all know that. We should discuss these things with a nice Spanish wine and around a table. This whole thing of fora is really mean! No wine! No food! No table! Gestures are no good! :-/
| | | | Ligia Dias Costa
Португалия
Local time: 22:50
английский => португальский
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ЛОКАЛИЗАТОР САЙТА | This is war between Portugal and Spain | Feb 19, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Ligia Dias Costa wrote:
I think I miss Felipe...
Ligia, why are you Portuguese people that way? (This is a personal, Spanish-nationalist attack! Please complain!) Now, seriously: talking and sharing points of view is always good. We learn a lot from each other. Of course sometimes it's just not easy to understand different ways of saying the same thing. I am also sure that we all want to promote the future of translation, and each of us has own theories about it. I'm Spanish, and I know it's sometimes hard to avoid a quick, harsh reaction to something we consider plain wrong. I am not free of sin at all and you all know that. We should discuss these things with a nice Spanish wine and around a table. This whole thing of fora is really mean! No wine! No food! No table! Gestures are no good! :-/
Declared!
You are right about one thing: there is a table and wine missing!
And you got me wrong! I wasn´t critising you at all. I too like to read and participate in these foruns as well as like to read you very much (a Spanish point of view is closer to a Portuguese one, pardon my other friends from other countries).
I think I missed my point in my commentary. I miss Felipe not because something you said, I believe you are quite right, but because of this endless discussion about prices and rates.
I too belive that these kind of rates are just harmfull for all of us. Even the ones who practice them. This is the offer and demand law. If we ALL keep our prices at medium fares, we ALL are going to get better.
Right?
Ligia
PS - And Tomás, I know you just looooove Portuguese people. At least as much as I love Spaniards!
[Editado em 2009-02-19 18:21 GMT]
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Ligia Dias Costa wrote: PS - And Tomás, I know you just looooove Portuguese people. At least as much as I love Spaniards!
I do actually! As they say: "One ocean, one people!"... or was it "One peninsula, one people!"? Now I can't remember. To much food and wine!
I now hereby formally invite everyone to a proper meeting in Madrid to enjoy the wine and the food and forget about them damn rates for a while!!
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Ligia Dias Costa
Португалия
Local time: 22:50
английский => португальский
+ ...
ЛОКАЛИЗАТОР САЙТА
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Ligia Dias Costa wrote: PS - And Tomás, I know you just looooove Portuguese people. At least as much as I love Spaniards! I do actually! As they say: "One ocean, one people!"... or was it "One peninsula, one people!"? Now I can't remember. To much food and wine! I now hereby formally invite everyone to a proper meeting in Madrid to enjoy the wine and the food and forget about them damn rates for a while!!
I have just proposed ProZ.com a conference to be held in Porto!
Great minds think alike!
| | | | Kevin Lossner
Португалия
Local time: 22:50
немецкий => английский
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| Marking the trends | Feb 19, 2009 |
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
Finally, to tell you a story, I worked as a bilingual secretary and translator at the Embassy of Korea here in Peru and earned US$ 420 per month ... I have been informed that in these years, the salary went up to US$ 850 per month... in a month I would be earning US$ 1620. This is double the salary of the Embassy. Not bad at all, eh?
Not bad at all, depending on your perspective. Tomas, you warned her about how things may change over the years and what looks like good money now might not be so good in a few years. Well... you were either inattentive or simply too polite to point out that her own words reveal this trend happening at a very rapid pace. Embassies are not known for their generosity, and the many Koreans I have known have had a strong appreciation of their money and a reluctance to spend more than required, so I wonder... why do you suppose that the salary of a secretary has doubled in 8 years? How many other jobs in how many other countries do you know where salaries have doubled in the last eight years? A little study of economic history might reveal some interesting and useful things.
I find it a bit unfair to pillory Cristina for her comparison of a bilingual secretary's job to that of a translator's activities. In many cases there really is no difference. This is part of the stratification of the market that many, including customers, fail to perceive. If she positions herself as a secretary and offers the skills and expertise of a secretary and offers quality which differs little from what one might expect of a bilingual secretary, then why should she charge more? To the extent that she offers more value, she should charge more, of course. But be serious, people... would any sane medical device manufacturer risk the potential liability of having a DFU translated by a bilingual secretary? Well, some do, and the lawyers lick their lips over cases like that. We've each got our own niche markets to play in and we should be happy with them.
As for international solidarity and taking advantage of opportunities in the global market, well... you can look at that many ways. It seems to me that global capital chasing cheap labor is almost like those damned yanquis with their eternal frontier: always cheaper in the next country, always moving on to the next bargain basement for prices. I can hardly wait to see what happens when those highly educated, cash-starved Cubans finally come online. Might not be so hot for Peru, but that's how the capitalist cookie crumbles. If you've got a higher calling none of this matters anyway.
| | | | Arnaud HERVE
Франция
Local time: 23:50
английский => французский
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I am quite content Kevin that in one quick post you successfully achieved:
- A definition of the national character of Koreans
- A denial of the opinion of someone having worked in the Korean embassy in Peru and presently living in Peru about the present level of salaries in the Korean embassy in Peru
- an encouragement for ignorants to study more economic history
- An assessment of the value of bilingual secretaries in the stratification of so... See more I am quite content Kevin that in one quick post you successfully achieved:
- A definition of the national character of Koreans
- A denial of the opinion of someone having worked in the Korean embassy in Peru and presently living in Peru about the present level of salaries in the Korean embassy in Peru
- an encouragement for ignorants to study more economic history
- An assessment of the value of bilingual secretaries in the stratification of society
- A diagnosis of the sanity of medical devices manufacturers
- A redefinition of the theme of the American frontier
- And finally, a perspective on the future of capitalism.
You know so much that you are always a good read. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vito Smolej
Германия
Local time: 23:50
Член ProZ.com c 2004
английский => словенский
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ЛОКАЛИЗАТОР САЙТА | "Any good translator should be able to do the research" | Feb 19, 2009 |
Kevin Lossner wrote: Vito Smolej wrote:
What does a Big Mac cost in Peru? : http://www.rami-services.com/bigmac.html The figures are a few years old, but at about USD 0.30 less for a Big Mac in Peru, translators there can clearly afford to work for much less.
you just explained the joke. Thank you.
HOWEVER - I mean, here's my point
it makes no sense to broadcast this kind of question (see the top) and not qualify it. Like "oh by the way, intended only for South Georgia and Falkand islands residents - penguins excluded".
Anyhow, seems like the thread has already left the original orbit by now.
[Edited at 2009-02-19 23:24 GMT]
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Kevin Lossner
Португалия
Local time: 22:50
немецкий => английский
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| Stating the obvious | Feb 20, 2009 |
Vito Smolej wrote:
Anyhow, seems like the thread has already left the original orbit by now.
Assuming it ever achieved lift-off. It's in the Twilight Zone in any case.
I assumed, Vito, that you were aware of the figures. But for those who don't recognize the significance of an annual rate of wage inflation of about 12% per year or higher, I thought a little more information might be helpful, not that it would be processed any more effectively.
| | | | | Am I doing my math right? | Feb 20, 2009 |
I am told that I can make in Peru, making as much as $54 per day (1800 words daily times 0.03 per word), nearly twice as much ($1620 vs. $850 monthly) as a freelance translator than as a bilingual secretary at an embassy (whether that is an apple to apple comparison is another matter) and that that ain’t too bad, so I am told. But, if my math is correct, to make that much as a freelance translator, under that assumption, I would have to work 30 days a month ($54 x 30 = $1620), twelve month a y... See more I am told that I can make in Peru, making as much as $54 per day (1800 words daily times 0.03 per word), nearly twice as much ($1620 vs. $850 monthly) as a freelance translator than as a bilingual secretary at an embassy (whether that is an apple to apple comparison is another matter) and that that ain’t too bad, so I am told. But, if my math is correct, to make that much as a freelance translator, under that assumption, I would have to work 30 days a month ($54 x 30 = $1620), twelve month a year, without any vacation or national holidays.
But I sorta refuse to work harder than a bilingual secretary at an embassy. So, I’ll work just 22 days per month (22 x $54 = $1,188). And as I also refuse to work during my vacations and on national holidays (22 additional days per year, two weeks vacation plus, say, 12 national holidays @ $54 daily = $1188), just to do an apple-to-apple comparison with a bilingual secretary salary, I will be making, per month, 1188 minus 1188 / 12 = 99, to allocate my yearly laziness per month. Thus, my monthly gross would be $1099.
Yet, to do even that much I would have to update hardware and software, to the tune of, say, $5000 to $6000 every five years, those damn things are internationally priced, same in the EU as in Haiti, about $100 per month. And I would need to get a fast Internet connection, plus books, plus "professional associations’" (such as ATA or ProZ) fees, plus office expenses (ink cdartridges, paper, envelopes, etc.), say, another $100 per month. I would be left with $1099 - $100 (equipment, hardware and software updatess,xpenses) - $100 (operating expenses), (can we have a discount for 3d worlders, Henry?). In short, I would pocket the handsome sum of $899 per month.
Well, you would say, that is at least $49 monthly more than working as a bilingual secretary at an embassy (and to be a bilingual secretary you would have to be hired by the embassy after passing certain tests, while for being considered a freelance translator you would have only to register on ProZ. Surely, bilingual secretaries deserve more. I can’t dispute that.)
But, as a freelancer, I need to guarantee that I would not get sick, or I would not be able to work and, thus, deservedly so, I would not be paid, as freelancers do not have paid sick leave. And, as a freelancer, I cannot get medical insurance group rates, nor any employer’s contribution to my retirement or medical insurance which are not included in the basic salary. And I would be liable for anything that goes wrong and have to do my own invoicing and other accounting (or marketing) chores, or hire my own accountant, and take the risk of not being paid by a client.
In short, I believe that, if I move to Peru, I will try to get one of those cozy bilingual secretary positions at an embassy rather than work as a freelance translator.
Am I too wrong with my numbers?
Luis ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
США
Local time: 14:50
английский => немецкий
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Памяти | Off topic. How much is software in Peru? | Feb 20, 2009 |
Peru is just a random example.
How much do you pay for Trados, Photoshop, InDesign and Acrobat?
Just curious. I see all those Trados-discounts...
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