| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | ProZ.com user vs ProZ.com member Thread poster: dieter haake
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Ralf Lemster wrote:
I fully support ProZ.com in their push to put the site on solid commercial grounds...
the main point here is not the reasons why etc.
as I see it, what so-called "users" hate most is the very name they have been given
BTW, what was wrong with the original member - Platinum member dichotomy?
am I right to guess that the former "members" were not motivated enough to become "Platinum members", and that now Proz.com expects that motivation to be greater...?
well, it might very well be the other way round
the name "user" may offend a lot of such "users" (especially those who contributed a lot!) to the extent that they just go away
cash is one thing, but without such contributions in kind who knows where Proz.com will be heading if they quit...?
that would be a shame, wouldn't it? and all of it just because someone decided to change a single word
the best, jk
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Anne Lee wrote:
Becoming a member of proz.com is one of the best decisions I ever made as a translator. User' is a very respectable term. Sorry, you are NOT a member if you don't pay. After using this site for so many years, the term 'guest' would not quite ring true either because you would be the sort of guest who had moved in, thinking that doing the washing up exempts him from sharing the rent.
[/quote]
thx for this post, Anne Lee
definitely it has helped me a lot
before I finally decide whether to stay or quit, just a small remark: all of us non-paying individuals (whatever you call them) used to be "members" just a month ago, those who pay the rent (and leave the washing up to others...?) were "Platinum members"
did you feel then that this was wrong...?
this is about names and not about principles - please understand this before you continue to offend the "users"
the best, jk
| | | | TonyTK
German to English
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| Pimp my ProZ | Jan 29, 2006 |
That's not the half of it …
E-mails leaked by dissidents in the ProZ management reveal the full extent of planned membership grades. From September 2006, users will be divided into four categories:
ProZ Pimps (agencies and outsourcers)
Proz Players (paying users with a university degree in translation – allowed one serious profile photo in business attire)
Proz Pros (non-paying users with a university degree in translation – allowed one l... See more That's not the half of it …
E-mails leaked by dissidents in the ProZ management reveal the full extent of planned membership grades. From September 2006, users will be divided into four categories:
ProZ Pimps (agencies and outsourcers)
Proz Players (paying users with a university degree in translation – allowed one serious profile photo in business attire)
Proz Pros (non-paying users with a university degree in translation – allowed one look-at-me-I'm-hot photo, clothes optional)
Proz Plebs (unpresentable, uneducated, uncouth, soccer-watching, context-refusing, Who Wants To Be A Millionaire-viewing, Aldi-shopping, non-paying users without a university degree in translation and with questionable personal habits – allowed one highly annoying animated logo or one picture of a puddy cat ▲ Collapse
| | | | Woodstock (X) 
Germany
Local time: 05:08
German to English
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| Agree with Ralf and Anne | Jan 29, 2006 |
Maybe I was not very clear in expressing my point of view, which is actually very simple: Basically you can do what you want, contribute to KudoZ or not, glossaries, articles, pay as a member or not, or not pay and still use some features or ignore the site entirely. It's up to you to get out of ProZ whatever you want, and you are given several options to do just that. I choose to pay to help keep ProZ financially viable and to benefit from the privileges I pay for.
Others do not. ... See more Maybe I was not very clear in expressing my point of view, which is actually very simple: Basically you can do what you want, contribute to KudoZ or not, glossaries, articles, pay as a member or not, or not pay and still use some features or ignore the site entirely. It's up to you to get out of ProZ whatever you want, and you are given several options to do just that. I choose to pay to help keep ProZ financially viable and to benefit from the privileges I pay for.
Others do not. That's all. ▲ Collapse
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Woodstock wrote:
Maybe I was not very clear in expressing my point of view, which is actually very simple: Basically you can do what you want, contribute to KudoZ or not, glossaries, articles, pay as a member or not, or not pay and still use some features or ignore the site entirely. It's up to you to get out of ProZ whatever you want, and you are given several options to do just that. I choose to pay to help keep ProZ financially viable and to benefit from the privileges I pay for.
Others do not. That's all.
maybe I was not very clear in expressing my point, either:
nobody's trying to challenge the rule that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch
if I want to use something, I have to pay for it
what we non-paying "users" (formerly "members") do not like is just the change in terminology
that's all.
OK?
| | | | Dees
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:08
English to French
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| interesting discussion | Jan 29, 2006 |
IMO, the use of the terms 'user' and 'member' are totally respectable from a terminological point of view because everyone on this site is a user (of the site) AND is part of the ProZ community (therefore is a member of that community). I personally see myself as both.
But then ProZ chose to use both terms in a specific way, i.e. member = paying user and user = non paying user.
Using different terms may not be fair as some of you expressed (i think it is just that ever... See more IMO, the use of the terms 'user' and 'member' are totally respectable from a terminological point of view because everyone on this site is a user (of the site) AND is part of the ProZ community (therefore is a member of that community). I personally see myself as both.
But then ProZ chose to use both terms in a specific way, i.e. member = paying user and user = non paying user.
Using different terms may not be fair as some of you expressed (i think it is just that every person will perceive both terms differently even though they do not inherently bear a negative connotation).
So why not use either paying/non-paying member or paying user/non-paying user to stay consistent?
Greetings,
Mitsuko
[Edited at 2006-01-29 15:10] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | thx Mitsuko! | Jan 29, 2006 |
Mitsuko Moine wrote:
IMO, the use of the terms 'user' and 'member' are totally respectable from a terminological point of view because everyone on this site is a user (of the site) AND is part of the ProZ community (therefore is a member of that community) .
But then ProZ chose to use both terms in a specific way, i.e. member = paying user and user = non paying user.
I see myself as both. But then, it's true that using different terms may not be fair as some of you expressed (i think it is just that every person will perceive both terms differently even though they do not inherently bear a negative connotation).
So why not using either paying/non-paying member or paying user/non-paying user to stay consistent?
it's great to know that there is someone out there who understands my point!
"users" use, utilize or exploit whatever there is to be used, utilized or exploited
"members" - well, this is different, beside "using" they also contribute somehow (at least this is what the non-paying people here thought they were doing)
and this, in my opinion, is the main point of the discussion... too bad that so very few of the "members" (former "Platinum members") seem to understand...
the best, jk
PS. former Plats: no need to stand up again in defence of the current Proz.com policy, really... it's all about terminology
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| "Honour member" ? | Jan 29, 2006 |
Maybe a new category - "honour member" - would be a solution?
I also do perceive a semantic difference between the terms MEMBER and USER: for me a MEMBER participates (throught sharing with others for example) contrary to a USER, who sees himself not as a part of the communicty and is only making use of the site (and/or his colleagues).
A HONOUR MEMBER could be defined as a person whose participation consists mostly in contributing to the site (= helping others and ENRI... See more Maybe a new category - "honour member" - would be a solution?
I also do perceive a semantic difference between the terms MEMBER and USER: for me a MEMBER participates (throught sharing with others for example) contrary to a USER, who sees himself not as a part of the communicty and is only making use of the site (and/or his colleagues).
A HONOUR MEMBER could be defined as a person whose participation consists mostly in contributing to the site (= helping others and ENRICHING THE CONTENT of ProZ).
We had a similar discussion in the Polish Forum and one of the "honour members" (as he deserves this title in my opinion) felt personally offended, because he in fact mostly contributes to the site. He could not stand the equation: non paying member = beneficiary of a free soup. I can understand that, I might have felt the same in his place.
Maybe a HM = gesture of gratitude towards those colleagues and an upgrading from a mere "user" would be a solution?
A.
[Edited at 2006-01-29 15:37] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | the solution ;) | Jan 29, 2006 |
actually, the best solution would be to restore the original terminology, members and Platinum members
membership upgrades earned with contributions seem rather risky to me (for reasons that should be obvious), and of course many of us who are just plain too busy most of the time to do the googling and thinking for others would hardly stand a chance of getting this kind of an upgrade
this discussion has so far been both interesting and illuminating... I particularly lov... See more actually, the best solution would be to restore the original terminology, members and Platinum members
membership upgrades earned with contributions seem rather risky to me (for reasons that should be obvious), and of course many of us who are just plain too busy most of the time to do the googling and thinking for others would hardly stand a chance of getting this kind of an upgrade
this discussion has so far been both interesting and illuminating... I particularly love the idea (expressed here by several Members) that what the "users" have been doing all those years was actually preying on those who pay
myself, I have hardly "used" the site - paid for Blueboard access a couple of times, never asked a question, checked a term or two... OK, I did get several clients via Proz.com (paying to submit a quote whenever this was required, of course). on the other hand, I did contribute a couple of answers to the questions... until I was tired of doing others' work for them
anyway, having been degraded to "user", from now on I intend to do exactly what the Members accuse me (us) of doing: to use (prey on) whatever is free here (if I ever need it) but never to contribute anything
I don't expect anybody to be sorry , I haven't been all that active... and of course it's not really the change in terminology that prompts me to change my own attitude, but rather the ever so kind response on part of the Members
have fun
jk ▲ Collapse
| | | | | What's in a name? | Jan 29, 2006 |
As I see it, the owner of the site is at liberty to use the terms he finds appropriate - it does not interfere with the way each of us has chosen to be present on or to contribute to this site.
[Edited at 2006-01-29 16:27]
| | | | | nothing has changed except a few words... | Jan 29, 2006 |
..even though we, of all people, know just how much the choice of a specific word instead of another may convey a slightly or immensely different meaning.
I think it all boils down to each person's individual motivation for becoming or not becoming a Platinum member.
The main issue to consider, before accusing anyone of "downgrading", "degrading" or "discrimintating" is that use of site features is unchanged, as unchanged is the whole community's respect and considerati... See more ..even though we, of all people, know just how much the choice of a specific word instead of another may convey a slightly or immensely different meaning.
I think it all boils down to each person's individual motivation for becoming or not becoming a Platinum member.
The main issue to consider, before accusing anyone of "downgrading", "degrading" or "discrimintating" is that use of site features is unchanged, as unchanged is the whole community's respect and consideration for new and long-standing members/users.
I personally hope that nobody is seriously taking offence. I don't feel on a higher level compared to non-platinum members/users, I just feel that I have invested to make use in full of ALL site features instead of just a few of these features.
Ciao, D. ▲ Collapse
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Daniela Zambrini wrote:
... as unchanged is the whole community's respect and consideration for new and long-standing members/users.
judging from a couple of previous posts, this is highly arguable
the best, jk
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Joanna Krahelska wrote: Daniela Zambrini wrote:
... as unchanged is the whole community's respect and consideration for new and long-standing members/users.
judging from a couple of previous posts, this is highly arguable the best, jk
Very arguable indeed!
Just a point that made me feel rather irked the other day is reading the following on my profile:
Your profile completeness score: 23 out of 35
Gosh, am I back in school? Is that why I am a Platinum member? So someone else can tell me what I should put in my profile? This is most definitely a change that in my view is not respectful of any kind of member. This is just one of many recent changes that to be perfectly honest puts my back up. Presumably if they give you a score, the powers that be also want you to get top marks. I know why my score is "only" 23. I do not use certain "features" such as the Project History. Guess what? This change was implemented while I already was a Platinum member and nobody asked me whether I wanted to cancel my membership since certain changes were being implemented. I can name a few more. Usually that is what happens in business. You subscribe to a service and if things get changed, you are asked whether you wish to continue to subscribe to the service.
The main reason why I am a Platinum member is the Blue Board (which incidently I also help to create since I have made 29 entries) and the support you get as Anne mentioned earlier. Also, I believe that a forum that brings translators of the world together is a worthwhile cause. Back to the community thing! That is why I originally joined and why I continue my Platinum membership.
I really do believe that we should listen when helpful people say they do not like being called users.
The Oxford dictionary gives the following:
user
· n.
1 a person who uses or operates something.
2 a person who exploits others.
3 Law the continued use or enjoyment of a right.
1 and 3 are fine but it also has the second connotation. I would not like to be called a user either!
One thing that has not been mentioned yet is that we are told we have to be politically correct in other aspects (no politics or religion) but now we can "insult" a great part of the people who actually contribute to the site.
Don't get me wrong, I think ProZ is a great site and it would be fantastic if everybody could or wanted to become paying members.
| | | | Özden Arıkan
Germany
Local time: 05:08
Member
English to Turkish
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| What's wrong with 'user'? | Jan 29, 2006 |
It's the standard term many websites employ when referring to their communities. I don't see how come it's perceived as pejorative. Nor does it denote a one-way relation, in the form of only taking, but not giving: outsourcers use our services, as far as I know, which doesn't mean that we give our translations to them as a gift, still a reciprocal giving is in question. I don't think the term 'user', as employed at Proz.com implies that users don't give anything to the site. They sure do, but th... See more It's the standard term many websites employ when referring to their communities. I don't see how come it's perceived as pejorative. Nor does it denote a one-way relation, in the form of only taking, but not giving: outsourcers use our services, as far as I know, which doesn't mean that we give our translations to them as a gift, still a reciprocal giving is in question. I don't think the term 'user', as employed at Proz.com implies that users don't give anything to the site. They sure do, but the bandwidth they use when doing so is subsidized by members, which makes it understandable to distinguish between the two. And Proz.com being a private business, it's the prerogative of the business owner to make this distinction. ▲ Collapse
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