Jul 20, 2022 14:50
1 yr ago
43 viewers *
français term
Royaume-Uni
Agri-food and cosmetics specialist
Native in: anglais (Variant: British)
Works in: français vers anglais, espagnol vers anglais
Pigeon de réforme
français vers anglais
Autre
Cuisine / culinaire
Ingredient
Can anyone help me with a translation for this term?
It appears in a recipe for pigeon.
1 Pce Pigeon de réforme vidé
From what I can understand this refers to an older pigeon but is there a specific term for it? I can't seem to find one anywhere.
Thanks.
It appears in a recipe for pigeon.
1 Pce Pigeon de réforme vidé
From what I can understand this refers to an older pigeon but is there a specific term for it? I can't seem to find one anywhere.
Thanks.
Proposed translations
(anglais)
| 3 | Utility/Adult/Spent pigeon |
Wolf Draeger
|
| 4 +5 | cull pigeon |
Conor McAuley
|
Proposed translations
1 jour 1 heure
Wolf Draeger
Afrique du Sud
Afrique du Sud
Native in anglais
Works in field
Afrique du Sud
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
Utility/Adult/Spent pigeon
This WordReference thread got me thinking:
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/pigeon-de-réforme-vi...
From what I can make out, an animal de réforme is one that is past its useful breeding or laying life and whose final use is as meat, albeit not the most tender or flavourful, though that is a matter of taste and trends.
A pigeon de réforme, then, is an adult or mature or (former) utility pigeon, around 3-4 years old, that is no longer suitable for breeding squabs, and is repurposed, as it were, into food.
So, what to call it in English?
"Utility pigeon" would be my first choice, but the average Jane may have no idea that it's a breeding pigeon that has reached its useful life, in contrast to the more common squabs it produces.
"Adult pigeon" or "Mature pigeon" kind of solves the age issue but doesn't explain that it was used to breed squabs.
"Spent pigeon" might raise a few eyebrows but would make sense to anyone familiar with spent hens.
For spent hens, see for example:
https://thebigbookproject.org/knowledge-base/what-is-a-spent...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/when-is-a-spent-hen...
https://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/finding-the-value-in...
Some French links relating to pigeons de réforme:
https://www.reussir.fr/volailles/le-pigeonneau-des-amyrelles...
https://www.quercyrouerguepigeonneau.fr/commander/
https://www.ferme-avicole.com/actu/
https://www.lemonde.fr/m-actu/article/2014/02/07/le-pigeon-u...
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2022-07-21 19:50:53 GMT)
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I guess the main point is that mature or spent utility pigeons are cheaper than squabs and thus better suited to certain kinds of dishes or preparations.
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/pigeon-de-réforme-vi...
From what I can make out, an animal de réforme is one that is past its useful breeding or laying life and whose final use is as meat, albeit not the most tender or flavourful, though that is a matter of taste and trends.
A pigeon de réforme, then, is an adult or mature or (former) utility pigeon, around 3-4 years old, that is no longer suitable for breeding squabs, and is repurposed, as it were, into food.
So, what to call it in English?
"Utility pigeon" would be my first choice, but the average Jane may have no idea that it's a breeding pigeon that has reached its useful life, in contrast to the more common squabs it produces.
"Adult pigeon" or "Mature pigeon" kind of solves the age issue but doesn't explain that it was used to breed squabs.
"Spent pigeon" might raise a few eyebrows but would make sense to anyone familiar with spent hens.
For spent hens, see for example:
https://thebigbookproject.org/knowledge-base/what-is-a-spent...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/when-is-a-spent-hen...
https://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/finding-the-value-in...
Some French links relating to pigeons de réforme:
https://www.reussir.fr/volailles/le-pigeonneau-des-amyrelles...
https://www.quercyrouerguepigeonneau.fr/commander/
https://www.ferme-avicole.com/actu/
https://www.lemonde.fr/m-actu/article/2014/02/07/le-pigeon-u...
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2022-07-21 19:50:53 GMT)
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I guess the main point is that mature or spent utility pigeons are cheaper than squabs and thus better suited to certain kinds of dishes or preparations.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks!"
+5
15 minutes
Conor McAuley
France
France
Native in anglais
France
Excellence, Expertise & Experience
Native in: anglais (Variants: Irish, British, Wales / Welsh, UK, Scottish)
Works in: français vers anglais, anglais
Related KudoZ points
:
8
cull pigeon
EU:
https://iate.europa.eu/search/result/1658329366685/1
Canada:
https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?l...
There is also an implication, for me at least, that these are older pigeons.
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Note added at 18 mins (2022-07-20 15:08:46 GMT)
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Tag: cull pigeons - The Pigeon Insiderhttps://www.pigeonracingpigeon.com › ...
Traduire cette page
Tag: ***cull pigeons***. *Culling Unproductive Flyers and Breeders* (part1 of 2). Article provided by Bob Prisco Culling is a procedure that is easy for some, ..
https://www.pigeonracingpigeon.com/tag/cull-pigeons/
In the context of pigeon racing – UK.
I don't think the French do pigeon racing (I may be wrong).
https://iate.europa.eu/search/result/1658329366685/1
Canada:
https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?l...
There is also an implication, for me at least, that these are older pigeons.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 mins (2022-07-20 15:08:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Tag: cull pigeons - The Pigeon Insiderhttps://www.pigeonracingpigeon.com › ...
Traduire cette page
Tag: ***cull pigeons***. *Culling Unproductive Flyers and Breeders* (part1 of 2). Article provided by Bob Prisco Culling is a procedure that is easy for some, ..
https://www.pigeonracingpigeon.com/tag/cull-pigeons/
In the context of pigeon racing – UK.
I don't think the French do pigeon racing (I may be wrong).
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Bourth
: Damn your eyes, I just prepared a whole spiel on this to come back and find you'd beaten me to it. Pigeons are mostly a thing of the Nord (under Belgian influence).
14 minutes
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Thanks CadastreToulous! I recall that expression from Johnny Cash. I got lucky with the Termium hit, and then I thought that there should be something from the EU on IATE.
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| agree |
philgoddard
: The idea is that it's not a squab, meaning a young farmed pigeon, but an adult.
21 minutes
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Thanks Phil! I don't mind eating rabbit, but I don't know about pigeon.
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| agree |
Samuël Buysschaert
: Yep, that's it, I agree with what has been said all around ! My grandfather (Nord) was a "colombophile" (pigeon racing).
46 minutes
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Thanks Samuël!
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| agree |
Anastasia Kalantzi
: Of course, I've been through all this cuz my dad was also for many years in the hunt of hare, quail, woodcock, pheasant.. except from pigeon hunter!
1 heure
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Thanks Anastasia!
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| agree |
Emmanuella
: https://rmc.bfmtv.com/actualites/courses-de-pigeons-voyageur...
2 heures
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Thanks Emmanuella! The French and their lofty pursuits, haha!
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| neutral |
Wolf Draeger
: Your refs suggest that culled animals are destroyed, not eaten.//Nothing in your answer backs up the unlikely idea that racing or any other pigeons are culled for food.
9 heures
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Inferior "products" can still be consumed. Wonky fruit and veg are sold cheaper. / I've nothing to prove, with the best linguists of the EU and Canada on my side! You're being fooled by the negative connotations of the word "cull".
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Discussion
I imagine people in English-speaking countries would rather not know the life history of the pigeon they eat. It may not be very pleasant:
http://www.peta.org.uk/blog/cold-blooded-killers-routine-cru...
Just "pigeon" may be the best translation.
"Qu’est-ce qu’un animal de réforme ? C’est un animal destiné à la production de jeunes animaux, de lait ou d’œufs qui, arrivant « en fin de production », est engraissé en vue de la consommation de sa viande. Utilisés pour le commerce de détail, la fabrication de plats cuisinés et la restauration collective, ces produits font parfois l’objet de pratiques frauduleuses, destinées à les commercialiser sous des dénominations plus valorisantes, comme par exemple « poulet » à la place de « poule », ou imprécises comme « viande ovine » au lieu de mouton ou agneau."