Oct 12, 2023 07:34
7 mos ago
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French term

mur gouttereau

French to English Other Architecture Romanesque-age architecture
The "pignon" is the gable wall, but what do we say for the "mur gouttereau"?

Discussion

Andrzej Ziomek Oct 12, 2023:
guttered wall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allos

Major restoration work took place between 1894 and 1896: the bottom of the facade and the Mur gouttereau (guttered walls), the bay windows, and the Buttresses were completely rebuilt and the roof of the third bay itself was also completely rebuilt.

Proposed translations

1 hr
Selected

side wall

In English we look at things differently, especially if you consider modern architecture (American/colonial style houses with no gables, buildings with flat roofs).

Traditionally buildings tended to be rectangular, with short gable walls (triangular at the top, no gutters) and long side walls below roof gutters.

These days, a lot of houses (in the US/colonial style) do not have gables, hence all the walls have gutters at the top. They would therefore all be murs gouttereau.

Which means that since we cannot distinguish walls by referring to gables, we have to find another means, and the answer is simply geometrical: we have side walls and end walls.

Note the definition of 'gable, gable end' in the Penguin Dict of Bldg: "The triangular part of the end wall of a building with a pitched roof between the barge boards or rafters...".

Note also, however, that it would be possible to have a building where the long walls have gables and the short walls carry gutters, so the above use of 'end wall' would not work.

In general, though, buildings of simple geometry (and not square or circular), you'll have end walls (mur pignon) and side walls (mur gouttereau).

The Forbes Dictionary of Architecture and Construction gives mur gouttereau as 'eaves wall' (never 'eave' without an s) but I suspect this is an invention for the needs of translation, when, by my books at least, the translation has to be adapted to actual English conditions.



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Note added at 1 hr (2023-10-12 09:22:11 GMT)
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Note added at 2 hrs (2023-10-12 09:42:07 GMT)
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This does not preclude referring to the gable aspect of a wall if there are gables, but I'd add 'end', so you'd have 'gable end walls' (or just 'gable ends') and 'side walls'.

gable end in British English noun. the end wall of a building on the side which is topped by a gable.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/gable-e...


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Note added at 2 hrs (2023-10-12 09:42:44 GMT)
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Note added at 6 hrs (2023-10-12 13:37:08 GMT)
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Wow! I've just looked into my archives and found this exchange, from 2005, with a colleague asking about the meaning of "end flank wall":

Question: Bracing to the retail pavillion is provided by the end flank walls
end walls ? flank walls ? (et en passant : end wall : mur pignon et flank wall = gouttereau ??)

My answer:
Scott donne:
flank wall, side wall = A wall at one side of a building, not a front or back wall. Je dirai donc pignon, terme qui s'emploie pour des murs autres qu'à V inversé de nos jours: un bâtiment à toit-terrasse a 4 murs gouttereau(x?), dont 2 façades (avant et arrière) (murs longs en général?) et 2 pignons (murs courts en général?). On précise "end flank wall" pour distinguer entre un bâtiment "A4" "à l'italienne", avec façade longue sur rue et deux pignons (end walls, mais aux "sides"), et un bâtiment "à la française" avec façade courte (pignon sur rue) et deux murs latéraux longs (flank wall plutôt que "end wall"). Bref, compliqué.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you everyone for your suggestions! I've selected "side wall" in my context, as it was about a church so the "mur gouttereau" would always be on the side of a church. For a house it wouldn't necessarily be the side wall though."
+1
13 mins

eave wall

This seems to be the correct term but there don't seem to be any hits for "mur gouttereau" + "eave wall". People seem to go for facade wall or long wall, so I guess it's a case of what you think will most easily be understood.
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard : I think long/facade wall conveys a more instantly understood meaning. Bourth's 'side wall' is fine too.
4 hrs
neutral Monjengue Nkoum Josué Arno : because the context if different because of the different architectural phislosophy between english and french constructions. the term gouttereau can be decomposed like goutter or égoutter and eau. that is, drain or water drain and so i can propose
6 hrs
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6 hrs

Rain drain wall

gouttereau can be written:
goutter or égoutter i.e. to drain; and
eau i.e. water, rain water, rain.
so i propose the rain drain wall - the wall that carries the rain drain pipes. that is the short wall that carries the pipe to drain rain water
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+3
6 hrs

gutter wall

A gutter wall is, in architectural language, the wall carrying a gutter or gutter ending the roof slope and receiving water as opposed to the gable wall.
An example photo:
https://www.futura-sciences.com/maison/definitions/architect...
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard : This is fine too.
45 mins
agree Andrzej Ziomek : I'd prefer 'guttered'
2 hrs
agree liz askew : gutter wall it is
3 hrs
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Reference comments

7 hrs
Reference:

We've had this before

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9 hrs
Reference:

see this lovely site and glossary:

https://dumas.ccsd.cnrs.fr/dumas-01980592/document



mur gouttereau, gouttereau, mur goutterot gutter wall
Mur de façade reliant les murs pignons, et portant une gouttière, d’où son nom.
RF : CRDP de Strasbourg. Mur gouttereau [en ligne]. In : Index des termes techniques. Disponible sur
(consulté le
22 ma
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