Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
retrait intérieur
English translation:
interior offset
Added to glossary by
Jessica Crockett
Apr 7, 2023 20:42
1 yr ago
21 viewers *
French term
United States
retrait intérieur
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Patents
automotive/glass
This is from a patent titled "Vitrage feuilleté coulissant à retrait intérieur et procédé de fabrication de ce vitrage."
The full patent can be found at https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2022162309A1/fr
The term unsurprisingly comes up quite a few times throughout the document - a few examples include:
L’invention repose sur la découverte que plutôt que de subir localement un retrait ou un débord de la feuille de verre intérieur, il était préférable de la concevoir et de la mettre en œuvre par feuilletage de telle sorte qu’après le feuilletage, la vitre feuilletée présente volontaire un retrait intérieur, réduit, visible, mais homogène dans la partie visible de la vitre.
Le retrait est appelé « retrait intérieur » car il s’agit de réaliser la feuille de verre intérieure plus petite que la feuille de verre extérieure ; autrement dit, seule la feuille de verre extérieure est entièrement aux dimensions nominales (dimensions de la baie à fermer).
I had initially thought the "retrait" would be a recess, but after getting further into the document, this doesn't seem to be the case and I am struggling quite a bit to find the right term. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
The full patent can be found at https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2022162309A1/fr
The term unsurprisingly comes up quite a few times throughout the document - a few examples include:
L’invention repose sur la découverte que plutôt que de subir localement un retrait ou un débord de la feuille de verre intérieur, il était préférable de la concevoir et de la mettre en œuvre par feuilletage de telle sorte qu’après le feuilletage, la vitre feuilletée présente volontaire un retrait intérieur, réduit, visible, mais homogène dans la partie visible de la vitre.
Le retrait est appelé « retrait intérieur » car il s’agit de réaliser la feuille de verre intérieure plus petite que la feuille de verre extérieure ; autrement dit, seule la feuille de verre extérieure est entièrement aux dimensions nominales (dimensions de la baie à fermer).
I had initially thought the "retrait" would be a recess, but after getting further into the document, this doesn't seem to be the case and I am struggling quite a bit to find the right term. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | interior offset |
Bourth
|
| 4 +4 | inner recess/indentation |
philgoddard
|
| 4 +1 | interior recess |
Conor McAuley
|
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
Non-PRO (1): Conor McAuley
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Proposed translations
19 hrs
Selected
interior offset
"OFFSET - Created by having one glass smaller than the other and either centering or aligning one or more edge during lamination"
https://www.prlglass.com/content/files/Glass/Laminated/Lamin...
"Offset units, also referred to as step-glazed units, have the edge of one glass ply extend beyond the edge of the other glass ply on one or more sides of the glass unit. [...]Offset units are defined by the number of offset edges and which ply is offset. Viracon can provide offset insulating units with 1, 2 or 3 edges offset. For the offset, the exterior ply must be larger than the interior ply. This is referred to as an exterior offset."
https://www.viracon.com/offset/
Therefore the French retrait intérieur is an English 'exterior offset'.
However, while 'offset' in the examples above is a positive, intentional feature, the word is also used for negative, accidental occurrences (precisely what the patent seeks to avoid).
"Laminated glasses often feature an offset between the individual glass panes resulting from the lamination process. With regards to visible or exposed edges, this displacement reduces the aesthetic quality of the glass component."
https://proceedings.challengingglass.com/index.php/cgc/artic...
"However, in many cases laminated glass elements have a visible offset between individual single glass panes due to the manufacturing process. Table 1 shows the maximum allowed offsets in relation to the maximum dimension of the glass component of EN ISO 12543-5 table 5. The European standard requires that the maximum edge offset of laminated glass, which depends on the glass geometry, be less than 6 mm."
https://proceedings.challengingglass.com/index.php/cgc/artic...
(The cure for this issue, when it is not deliberately introducing a controlled, intentional offset, is grinding the edge).
I note that the 'Similar Documents' section of the patent document lists two patents that use the words débord intérieur. For what reason they changed to retrait I know not, but I might be tempted to align myself, if only partially, with that, and call this retrait intérieur an 'internal/interior offset', even if that contradicts the English definition 'exterior offset' above (of which I found only one instance). Possibly preceded by 'intentional' in cases where confusion might be possible.
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Note added at 19 hrs (2023-04-08 16:24:22 GMT)
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Though in isolation it would not be clear that the 'offset' is a retrait, it would be made clear throughout the patent where we find:
1) un retrait intérieur (9) d'un chant (51) d'une feuille de verre intérieure
Quite honestly, intérieur seems superfluous in French, for a retrait is necessarily inwards. I can't help thinking they've moved on unthinkingly from débord intérieur where the adjective is necessary since unlike retrait a débord could be seen to work in two directions.
The above would be more logically written un retrait (9) d'un chant (51) d'une feuille de verre intérieure
However, it seems they've introduced elision into their terminology, and retrait intérieur is actually shorthand for retrait de la feuille intérieure par rapport à la feuille extérieure, so it is not the retrait that is intérieur but the location of the retrait:
2 "Le retrait est appelé « retrait intérieur » car il s’agit de réaliser la feuille de verre intérieure plus petite que la feuille de verre extérieure ; autrement dit, seule la feuille de verre extérieure est entièrement aux dimensions nominales (dimensions de la baie à fermer)."
https://www.prlglass.com/content/files/Glass/Laminated/Lamin...
"Offset units, also referred to as step-glazed units, have the edge of one glass ply extend beyond the edge of the other glass ply on one or more sides of the glass unit. [...]Offset units are defined by the number of offset edges and which ply is offset. Viracon can provide offset insulating units with 1, 2 or 3 edges offset. For the offset, the exterior ply must be larger than the interior ply. This is referred to as an exterior offset."
https://www.viracon.com/offset/
Therefore the French retrait intérieur is an English 'exterior offset'.
However, while 'offset' in the examples above is a positive, intentional feature, the word is also used for negative, accidental occurrences (precisely what the patent seeks to avoid).
"Laminated glasses often feature an offset between the individual glass panes resulting from the lamination process. With regards to visible or exposed edges, this displacement reduces the aesthetic quality of the glass component."
https://proceedings.challengingglass.com/index.php/cgc/artic...
"However, in many cases laminated glass elements have a visible offset between individual single glass panes due to the manufacturing process. Table 1 shows the maximum allowed offsets in relation to the maximum dimension of the glass component of EN ISO 12543-5 table 5. The European standard requires that the maximum edge offset of laminated glass, which depends on the glass geometry, be less than 6 mm."
https://proceedings.challengingglass.com/index.php/cgc/artic...
(The cure for this issue, when it is not deliberately introducing a controlled, intentional offset, is grinding the edge).
I note that the 'Similar Documents' section of the patent document lists two patents that use the words débord intérieur. For what reason they changed to retrait I know not, but I might be tempted to align myself, if only partially, with that, and call this retrait intérieur an 'internal/interior offset', even if that contradicts the English definition 'exterior offset' above (of which I found only one instance). Possibly preceded by 'intentional' in cases where confusion might be possible.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2023-04-08 16:24:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Though in isolation it would not be clear that the 'offset' is a retrait, it would be made clear throughout the patent where we find:
1) un retrait intérieur (9) d'un chant (51) d'une feuille de verre intérieure
Quite honestly, intérieur seems superfluous in French, for a retrait is necessarily inwards. I can't help thinking they've moved on unthinkingly from débord intérieur where the adjective is necessary since unlike retrait a débord could be seen to work in two directions.
The above would be more logically written un retrait (9) d'un chant (51) d'une feuille de verre intérieure
However, it seems they've introduced elision into their terminology, and retrait intérieur is actually shorthand for retrait de la feuille intérieure par rapport à la feuille extérieure, so it is not the retrait that is intérieur but the location of the retrait:
2 "Le retrait est appelé « retrait intérieur » car il s’agit de réaliser la feuille de verre intérieure plus petite que la feuille de verre extérieure ; autrement dit, seule la feuille de verre extérieure est entièrement aux dimensions nominales (dimensions de la baie à fermer)."
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you!! This looks like exactly what I need, and I really appreciate the thoroughness - super helpful!"
+4
23 mins
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
inner recess/indentation
The translation here (have you seen it?) says "recess":
http://patents.google.com/patent/WO2022162309A1/en
This seems like a reasonable choice of word, but you could also say "indentation".
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Note added at 25 mins (2023-04-07 21:08:30 GMT)
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recess
a receding or hollow place, as in a surface, wall, etc.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/reces...
And "cutout" is another possibility.
http://patents.google.com/patent/WO2022162309A1/en
This seems like a reasonable choice of word, but you could also say "indentation".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2023-04-07 21:08:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
recess
a receding or hollow place, as in a surface, wall, etc.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/reces...
And "cutout" is another possibility.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Yolanda Broad
4 mins
|
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
16 mins
|
| agree |
Charles R.
6 hrs
|
| agree |
Bourth
: That much is acceptable, but I'd avoid the 'pane puff pastry' for vitre feuilletée in that translation ;-)
13 hrs
|
+1
14 hrs
Conor McAuley
France
France
Native in English
Works in field
France
Excellence, Expertise & Experience
Native in: English (Variants: Irish, British, Wales / Welsh, UK, Scottish)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
interior recess
See Discussion entry.
Answer easy to find – arguably a non-Pro question.
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Note added at 15 hrs (2023-04-08 12:38:31 GMT)
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I suppose inner v interior is, to a certain extent, about stylistics, but that said there are significantly fewer search matches for "inner recess" + glass or glazing (only about 45k for each versus 250K for "interior recess" and the same).
Answer easy to find – arguably a non-Pro question.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2023-04-08 12:38:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I suppose inner v interior is, to a certain extent, about stylistics, but that said there are significantly fewer search matches for "inner recess" + glass or glazing (only about 45k for each versus 250K for "interior recess" and the same).
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jennifer Levey
1 hr
|
|
Thanks Jennifer! / I suppose inner v interior is about stylistics, that said significantly fewer search matches for "inner recess" + glass/glazing (only about 45k for each)
|
Discussion
The non-Pro/Pro debate has a lot of history to it, I'm not having a go a you.
Yes, "puff pastry", I wondered what Bourth was joking about, you've also got "la vitre feuilletée présente volontaire".
(Edit) It's hard to figure out what the context is here in terms of which version, the French or the English, was the original version, the French AND the English versions are bad, or at least feature one or two glaring errors.
Ring up a garage and ask an expert...a garage is a repair shop in your part of the world.
Anyway, good luck with it.
Also I prefer the term used on the English page, "interior recess", to Phil's answer, and that term seems to be in common use as a technical term – plenty of internet search results with the term + glass and + glazing, about 250,000 in each instance.