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Improving self-proofreading
Thread poster: Daniel Frisano
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 08:29
French to English
. Apr 10, 2021

Josephine Cassar wrote:

Chris S wrote:

Josephine Cassar wrote:
Read the text aloud or read backwards, you'll be surprised what a difference these make, so simple yet so effective

When you say read backwards, do you mean literally backwards? Page by page, paragraph by paragraph, sentence by sentence, drow yb drow?!

Or do you mean compare the source against the target, rather than vice versa?

Well, I should have explained further. If your text is only a couple of pages, you can read backwards one paragraph after another or even one sentence after another ( I prefer one paragraph for the flow)but if your text is several pages long, clearly, you can't do that. I then suggest only reading backwards those paragraphs/sentences which do not sound quite right. It might seem strange at first but it works. For longish texts, I prefer reading out loud though, or reading backwards only parts where I have doubts.


Yes, I sometimes do this too. It's particularly helpful with long texts, where you run out of steam at some point, meaning that you might just overlook a howler in the last paragraph on page 13. If you start on page 14, you're still fresh for page 13, and since you start at the bottom, you're more likely to spot the howler.


Christopher Schröder
 
Ivana Kahle
Ivana Kahle  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:29
Member (2007)
German to Croatian
+ ...
Longer and more frequent breaks Apr 10, 2021

I tend to do the proofreading for some 45-50 minutes and take a longer (10-15 minutes) break. During the break the best way to recharge my batteries is doing some physical activity (for example: stretching exercises standing by a wide-open window). It helps me to regain concentration, because IMO proofreading requires more concentration that translating. It's time for one now

P.L.F. Persio
Christopher Schröder
 
Jocelin Meunier
Jocelin Meunier  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 08:29
English to French
+ ...
Little "trick" Apr 10, 2021

A thing that strangely works (at least for me) is to change the "background" of your text. When I proofread my work, I usually minimize the window so that it's surrounded with my desktop. My guess is that it offers a variation of how were things when you were translating and it makes you see things a bit differently.

P.L.F. Persio
Christopher Schröder
Josephine Cassar
 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:29
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Printing Apr 10, 2021

Not very good for the environment, is it? Then we complain the world is going down the drain...

[Edited at 2021-04-10 11:22 GMT]


Josephine Cassar
Rui Domingues
Philip Lees
Kay Denney
 
Daniel Frisano
Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 08:29
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Impact Apr 10, 2021

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Not very good for the environment, is it? Then we complain the world is going down the drain...


I wish there was some kind of quantitative index to assess the actual impact on the environment of everything we do.

How much does it "cost" in environmental terms to print a 15-page document?
How much for 12 hours of air conditioning?
How much for driving 50 kms in your car?
How much for buying a garment that was made at the other end of the world?
How much for having fresh summer fruit in the winter?


Christopher Schröder
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Shilpa Baliga
 
Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:29
German to English
+ ...
two-stage, two-purpose, purposed Apr 10, 2021

I think the raw framework for this was set back when I did the ATIO exam and later acted as tutor in the correspondence course for a few years. There are two main categories: a) translation, b) language (or reverse order). In "translation" you are checking the accuracy of the translation. Has all the meaning been translated, as intended, in the right register, with no omissions, changes, additions etc.? In "language" you're seeing that it reads like a native language document, again in the r... See more
I think the raw framework for this was set back when I did the ATIO exam and later acted as tutor in the correspondence course for a few years. There are two main categories: a) translation, b) language (or reverse order). In "translation" you are checking the accuracy of the translation. Has all the meaning been translated, as intended, in the right register, with no omissions, changes, additions etc.? In "language" you're seeing that it reads like a native language document, again in the right register, is comprehensible and of course grammar, spelling and syntax. Often a "language" related improvement can compromise the "translation" end and vice versa. I check twice, wearing those two different hats.

For the "language" part I used to read the text aloud. That prevents assuming a word is that that isn't there, or not not noticing not noticing a repetition. I liked a printout so I could get up and pace. These days I often use the "read aloud" feature of Word. Again I can walk around while listening, and then zip over to the computer with a "whoah!" if something sounds off. The "two rulers" kind of scanning of paper copies for the "translation" part that some colleagues cited - I like that too.

The "purpose" is in my title because I found it helpful to break up the proofreading into different categories rather than checking all aspects at once (depending on the text).
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Josephine Cassar
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
P.L.F. Persio
 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:29
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Impact Apr 11, 2021

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Not very good for the environment, is it? Then we complain the world is going down the drain...


I wish there was some kind of quantitative index to assess the actual impact on the environment of everything we do.

How much does it "cost" in environmental terms to print a 15-page document?
How much for 12 hours of air conditioning?
How much for driving 50 kms in your car?
How much for buying a garment that was made at the other end of the world?
How much for having fresh summer fruit in the winter?


So, your answer is...


 
Daniel Frisano
Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 08:29
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
  Apr 11, 2021

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

So, your answer is...


First a couple more questions (there ARE questions that are worth asking, after all):

If I watch a football match played in a monstrous stadium that was built from scratch in the Qatari desert, am I indirectly responsible for a fraction of the huge waste in environmental resources that goes with the whole FIFA circus?
Since we're there, am I responsible for the systematic exploitation and occasional death of the migrant workers that were used to build the facilities, mainly from India/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh/Nepal?

As you can see, once you get it going, it's not easy to stop the flow. Now for the answer:

We're destroying ourselves by building a model that we won't be able to sustain, and we're taking a whole bunch of species with us. There are perhaps 3-4000 tigers left on the whole planet, and the situation with the bees is becoming serious, with all the consequences for the flora that relies on insects for pollination. We've always been really good at this: when Homo sapiens first reached Australia around 40-50,000 years ago, 90%+ of large mammals became extinct within a few centuries. Same with the Americas via Beringia.

We don't have to worry about the planet though. The planet is patient, it's 5 billion years old to our 100,000 years or so as H. sapiens. I'll spare you the math, that's a 50,000/1 proportion. The planet can (and did) survive in a variety of conditions - no atmosphere, snowball earth, atmosphere full of methane or ammonia or sulphur oxides, tropical forests up to the poles, exposure to cosmic radiation, impacts from asteroids, whatever.

The planet will just wait until we're gone, and at this pace it won't have to wait long. To Earth, the whole humanity is like a mild sinus irritation: a couple of sneezes, and it's quickly forgotten.

[Edited at 2021-04-11 12:02 GMT]


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:29
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Still not sure... Apr 11, 2021

Daniel Frisano wrote:

The planet will just wait until we're gone, and at this pace it won't have to wait long.


what your answer is. Are you saying that we can carry on polluting and destroying the planet because we will be gone before the planet suffers irreversible consequences?

[Edited at 2021-04-11 12:14 GMT]


 
Daniel Frisano
Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 08:29
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English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
  Apr 11, 2021

My answer is: we're way too ignorant and self-centered to find answers and know which measures we should take, let alone implementing them. And artificial intelligence heavily contributes to our ignorance, since it allows us to use our heads even less.

Then again, ignorance will end up accelerating our demise, which paradoxically is good news for Earth.

And now I'll go back to translating my patent for some virus-killing chemical. I can't wait to get to the point where
... See more
My answer is: we're way too ignorant and self-centered to find answers and know which measures we should take, let alone implementing them. And artificial intelligence heavily contributes to our ignorance, since it allows us to use our heads even less.

Then again, ignorance will end up accelerating our demise, which paradoxically is good news for Earth.

And now I'll go back to translating my patent for some virus-killing chemical. I can't wait to get to the point where we inject various forms of cancers in rats and mice and observe how it develops, then "sacrifice" or "euthanize" them (because of course we never "kill") to study the effects.
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James Plastow
James Plastow  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:29
Member (2020)
Japanese to English
carbon footprint Apr 11, 2021

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Not very good for the environment, is it? Then we complain the world is going down the drain...


I wish there was some kind of quantitative index to assess the actual impact on the environment of everything we do.

How much does it "cost" in environmental terms to print a 15-page document?
How much for 12 hours of air conditioning?
How much for driving 50 kms in your car?
How much for buying a garment that was made at the other end of the world?
How much for having fresh summer fruit in the winter?


So, your answer is...


"Carbon footprint" ie g of CO2 for the lifecycle of activities related to the product is often used.
I used to work on these kinds of things many years ago.

Some rough numbers would be:
Paper : 6 gCO2 per sheet, so 90 gCO2 for 15 sheets (https://www.ezeep.com/co2-neutral-printing/)
Air conditioning : 466 gCO2 per hour so 5592 gCO2 for 12 hours (assuming 2 kW air conditioner and 0.233 kg/kWh emissions factor (for UK https://bulb.co.uk/carbon-tracker/))
Driving : 122.4 gCO2 per km so 6120 gCO2 to drive 50 km (https://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/average-co2-emissions-from-new-cars-vans-2019)
Clothing : Eg for a T shirt from Asia to Europe 1130 gCO2 (http://www.tshared.eu/blog-of-tsharedeu/carbon-footprint.html) (not including the emissions from you washing your t-shirt)
Fruit : 300 gCO2 per kg (https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local)

Printing a page is 6 gCO2. If your PC is consuming 150 W, you are emitting 35 gCO2 every hour it is on (based on average UK electricity). So, printing a piece of paper is worth 10.3 minutes of PC power.

Anyway, these numbers are tiny compared to heating/cooling/hot water/travel/meat so I think there is not much to worry about with printing, especially if you use recycled paper from sustainable sources.

Coming back to the topic of proofreading, personally I find the immersive reader in Word (under the View menu) quite helpful.


Christopher Schröder
 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 08:29
French to English
. Apr 11, 2021

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Not very good for the environment, is it? Then we complain the world is going down the drain...

[Edited at 2021-04-10 11:22 GMT]


I agree, but I know I would pick up all sorts of mistakes, or see better ways of phrasing things, much more easily on paper than on the screen. I printed everything out working at the agency, but as a freelancer I can't bear to kill that many trees. Then again, if you don't use your computer while proofreading on paper, you save on electricity...

I also have a little list of things to check during my final proofread:
- check all numbers (times/dates/prices/percentages etc.) are written properly and consistently in English and still correspond to the French,
- make sure no sentence runs on for too long,
- check consistency of punctuation and capitalisation everywhere esp in lists, opening and closing of brackets and speech marks,
- termino check, for consistency all the way through and with the glossary if there is one,
- spellcheck for proper nouns that the spellcheck systematically underlines in Word,
- check all links to make sure they work, put the English page if there is one, specify that the website is in French only if that's the case,
- full spellcheck obviously. It's the last thing I do, having noticed while proofreading at the agency that this was the one thing that all good translators did systematically. If I didn't have much time to assess tests, I would start by eliminating all those who hadn't done this, and I'm pretty sure I didn't miss out on anyone worth working with.


Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Christopher Schröder
 
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 07:29
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Impact Apr 11, 2021

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Not very good for the environment, is it? Then we complain the world is going down the drain...

[Edited at 2021-04-10 11:22 GMT]


I don’t pretend to be an expert on environment, but over the years I’ve translated a lot of documents, mainly for FAO and DGENV (EC), and this is what I know: What are the primary causes of deforestation? Many point the finger at the pulp and paper sector, but according to FAO, agricultural activities are one of the significant factors affecting deforestation to around 80%, the other factors being livestock ranching, logging, mostly illegal, urbanization, desertification of land, mining forest fires and paper. Much more hectares of forests are cut down or burned by humans to clear land for agriculture than by the pulp and paper sector. Of course, the environmental impact of pulp and paper production can lead to severe damage, but major progress has been made by the industry in recent years, and modern technologies for the treatment of effluents have significantly reduced their volume and toxicity. On the other hand, paper recycling rates continue to rise. Recycling has increased in Europe by nearly 20% within the last decade or so, reaching a level of almost 72%, though this also comes with its own nuisances: some chemical substances were identified as potentially critical in relation to paper recycling.


Kaspars Melkis
Christopher Schröder
 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:29
Member (2004)
English to Italian
ok... Apr 11, 2021

thanks everybody for the answers, Daniel included... I still believe printing on paper is bad, if done on a global scale. But that's just my opinion. I won't be here to see the demise of our planet... I'm quite old...

[Edited at 2021-04-11 13:31 GMT]


 
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