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翻译点滴 (Challenges in Interpretation)
Thread poster: David Shen
David Shen
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In this instance, machine translation triumphs Aug 26, 2020

ysun wrote:
......
Google 翻译结果:“CDC确认了美国首例来源不明的冠状病毒病例。” 您给 Google 打几分?评几级?......


《此例机译胜人译》

释义根据上下文,用词还得看语境。
翻译巧走鲤鱼背,滑到哪边看心情。
D.S.2020.0826.a

正经翻译不上桌,以防边吃又边说。
此地分明在造句,可能老兄已喝多。
D.S.2020.0826.b


 
ysun
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译者先入为主 Aug 26, 2020

David Shen wrote:

ysun wrote:
......
Google 翻译结果:“CDC确认了美国首例来源不明的冠状病毒病例。” 您给 Google 打几分?评几级?......


《此例机译胜人译》

确实“此例机译胜人译”!尽管 Google Translate 尚需进一步完善,但它毫无政治立场。你输入什么原文,它就不偏不倚地输出译文。不管是特朗普总统还是“习总统”,只要在 Google Translate 里输入同一原文,出来的译文将是一样的。而那位译员就不同了。估计他事先就认为“新冠病毒起源于美国”,所以一看到 CNN 那段新闻就如获至宝,以为终于找到证据了。

这跟那个非要把 leave 译成“撤离”的例子非常相似,先入为主导致误译。
https://www.proz.com/post/2854811#2854811

在那个例子中,人民日报驻外记者觉得,伊朗已经威胁它将用洲际导弹袭击美国本土,特朗普和白宫官员肯定是吓坏了,所以一定会赶紧撤离白宫。国内许多媒体根据人民日报海外版这一报道而发布的许多叼盘分析文章可以证明这一点。其实蓬佩奥等白宫官员只不过是离开白宫回家吃饭刷碗而已。
https://world.huanqiu.com/article/3wWwH74kcDb



另外,该译员的中文水平和科学常识也是够差劲儿的。什么叫做“美国疾病预防控制中心承认第一个新病毒起源于美国”?难道新病毒是论个儿一个一个地出现的吗?包子、汉堡包倒是论个儿卖的,但新冠病毒不会一个一个地单独出现。而且原文是“first coronavirus case of 'unknown' origin”。连 Google Translate 都知道应该译为“首例来源不明的冠状病毒病例”。事实上,Google Translate 吸收采纳了无数“内行+翻译”的智慧,而且仍在不断地完善,所以在许多情况下其水平能高于一般翻译人员的平均水平。从“首例”和“第一个”这两个不同措辞即可看出内行与外行的区别!

[Edited at 2020-08-27 20:09 GMT]


 
ysun
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译者不求甚解 Aug 28, 2020

关于“CDC confirms first coronavirus case of 'unknown' origin in U.S.",我没找到与那张截图完全对应的CNN视频,但从 twitter 上的一条信息看来,这条新闻并非是指“美国首例冠状病毒病例”,而是指 “possible first case of "community spread" of coronavirus in U.S."
https://twitter.com/dansimoncnn/status/1232988698632830976<
... See more
关于“CDC confirms first coronavirus case of 'unknown' origin in U.S.",我没找到与那张截图完全对应的CNN视频,但从 twitter 上的一条信息看来,这条新闻并非是指“美国首例冠状病毒病例”,而是指 “possible first case of "community spread" of coronavirus in U.S."
https://twitter.com/dansimoncnn/status/1232988698632830976

根据以下视频,也可判断 CNN 是指 “possible first case of "community spread" of coronavirus in U.S."。这是指加州一位未曾与新冠病毒感染者接触、也无疫区旅行史的新冠肺炎患者,所以才说是“冠状病毒来源不明的病例”。
The CDC has changed its criteria for testing patients for coronavirus after the first case of unknown origin was confirmed
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/27/health/us-cases-coronavirus-community-transmission/index.html

路透社的相关报道也是如此:
CDC confirms first coronavirus case of unknown origin
https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idOVC2E8ZQ7

可见,那位译者并未理解 CNN 视频里的意思,只是根据那张视频截图就匆忙添上中文字幕。这种不求甚解的态度是从事翻译工作的大忌!

至于“美国首例冠状病毒病例”,应该是指从武汉回到西雅图的那位:
1st case of coronavirus confirmed in US l ABC News 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMc280EtXxs

[Edited at 2020-08-28 07:14 GMT]
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David Shen
QHE
 
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On The Fantastic Photography of Ringo H.W. Chiu Sep 6, 2020

【翻译点滴】NOTES OF A TRANSLATOR
On The Fantastic Photography of Ringo H.W. Chiu

《瞬间有神助,文字叹无能》
——见华裔攝影記者趙漢榮先生作品有感

加州山火,专业写真。气势恢弘,动态惊魂。
这种摄影,神乎其神。帧帧有词,文字无能。
如此高手,何方神圣?快报学徒,谦谦港人。
一旦人能自由发挥,登峰造极皆有可能。

D.S.2020.
... See more
【翻译点滴】NOTES OF A TRANSLATOR
On The Fantastic Photography of Ringo H.W. Chiu

《瞬间有神助,文字叹无能》
——见华裔攝影記者趙漢榮先生作品有感

加州山火,专业写真。气势恢弘,动态惊魂。
这种摄影,神乎其神。帧帧有词,文字无能。
如此高手,何方神圣?快报学徒,谦谦港人。
一旦人能自由发挥,登峰造极皆有可能。

D.S.2020.0906.a

California wildfire traps campers in national forest 2 hrs ago


An air tanker drops retardant at a wildfire burns at a hillside in Yucaipa, Calif., Saturday, Sept. 5, 2020. © AP Photo/Ringo H.W. Chiu


Members of a hand crew work on the fire line in Yucaipa, Calif., Saturday, Sept. 5, 2020. © AP Photo/Ringo H.W. Chiu


Three fast-spreading California wildfires sent people fleeing Saturday, with one trapping campers at a reservoir in the Sierra National Forest, as a brutal heat wave pushed temperatures into triple digits in many parts of state. © AP Photo/Ringo H.W. Chiu

[Edited at 2020-09-06 18:38 GMT]
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QHE
David Lin
 
pkchan
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赵汉荣老师简介: Sep 7, 2020

w644

Ringo H.W. Chiu(趙漢榮)was born in China and raised in Hong Kong and graduated from Chu Hai College, where he earned a B.A. in journalism and mass communication. He also received his 2nd B.A. in special major with emphasis in photojournalism in California State University of Northridge. Ringo currently lives in Los Angeles and is a professional photographer who works as a chief photographer for the Los Angeles Business Journal. He also works as a freelance photographer for the Los Angeles Times, AP, Xinhua, Getty Images. In Hong Kong, he worked for The Express, Sing Tao Daily and Evening Post on various major assignments such as Eastern China flooding, Sino-British meetings in Beijing, amnesty for Chinese illegal immigrants in Macau, Hong Kong Handover 1997. Ringo has earned recognition and respect in the photography field. His works have been published in the world and have received numerous honors such as Canada's Photojournalism Photography Award Winner in Applied Arts Magazine Annual Contest 2007, Press Photographer Association of Greater Los Angeles's Picture of the Year in 2002, 2005, 2006 and 2009, The Best Hong Kong News Photography in 1992, 1993 and 1994.


David Lin
 
David Shen
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A Finalist of the prestigious Pulitzer Price Sep 8, 2020

PK我兄,

原来是普利策奖决赛入围者,难怪出手不同凡响。对从事文艺创作的人和新闻界的人来说普利策奖(Pulitzer Prize)就如同奥斯卡金像奖了。能获得提名就已经不容易了,进入决赛圈的无疑是业界公认的好手,而且还得本年度业绩非凡。

根据你提供的信息我进一步查看了三个决赛者作品,老实说,从摄影艺术的角度来看,其他两位的东西还不如他的。想必最终获奖者的评选另有评判标准或因素。

https://www.pulitzer.org/finalists/noah-berger-john-locher-and-ringo-h-w-chiu-associated-press


David Lin
 
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New Developments in Revolutionary Realism Oct 11, 2020

【翻译点滴】 NOTES OF A TRANSLATOR _New Developments in Revolutionary Realism

How TV Shows Have Incorporated COVID-19 Storylines (Photos) by Reid Nakamura 15 hrs ago

《东施效颦竟在西》

‘革命文艺’出美帝,Covid-19 已入戏。
哪种风格更现实,�
... See more
【翻译点滴】 NOTES OF A TRANSLATOR _New Developments in Revolutionary Realism

How TV Shows Have Incorporated COVID-19 Storylines (Photos) by Reid Nakamura 15 hrs ago

《东施效颦竟在西》

‘革命文艺’出美帝,Covid-19 已入戏。
哪种风格更现实,歌功颂德称 "rosy"。
向来“13”不吉利,今后“19”更晦气。(这不:)
正编排的连续剧,病房改号 Station-19。


ABC's "Grey's Anatomy" will open with a "Station 19" crossover episode set a few weeks into the onset of the outbreak in Washington. © ABC

Ref
革命现实主义
革命现实主义,是无产阶级文艺的基本创作方法之一。其特点是要求站在无产阶级立场上,用辩证唯物主义和历史唯物主义的观点观察生活,表现生活,从现实的革命斗争发展中真实地、历史地和具体地去描写现实,通过典型人物、典型环境的描写,深刻地反映现实生活的本质。 (百度百科)
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Xiaoxuan Chen
Xiaoxuan Chen
Australia
收获 Oct 21, 2020

从头到尾浏览了各位前辈们分享的翻译点滴,经验分享,真的受益良多。
从如何确定对他人的称谓而不使感到冒犯,到机器翻译与人工翻译所能带来的差距,作为一个口译员需要学习和积累的真的还很多。
谢谢各位前辈的分享和赐教!


 
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David Shen
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Welcome Oct 23, 2020

《来者是客》

欢迎应由版主说,他忙我先抛空壳。
此帖实无质可言,凑合旧事求飘忽。

D.S.2020.1023.a


 
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David Shen
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Working from Chinese to English Oct 25, 2020

【翻译点滴】 NOTES OF A TRANSLATOR ·
Working from Chinese to English often means treading from ambiguity into definition

《中译英,宏到精》

望文生义中文易,尤其古人留的句。
英文模棱两可难,语法不合句就瘫。
中文活,英文板;字套词,句全散.....
单词增减无所谓,把住逻辑从头排。

D.S.2020.1025.a

如要对上述结论做个说明,另一帖�
... See more
【翻译点滴】 NOTES OF A TRANSLATOR ·
Working from Chinese to English often means treading from ambiguity into definition

《中译英,宏到精》

望文生义中文易,尤其古人留的句。
英文模棱两可难,语法不合句就瘫。
中文活,英文板;字套词,句全散.....
单词增减无所谓,把住逻辑从头排。

D.S.2020.1025.a

如要对上述结论做个说明,另一帖中所引用的那对楹联就是较好的例子:

正邪自古同冰炭,毁誉于今判伪真。


这两天我出于好奇,想看看现在的网民对这付刻在岳飞墓前石柱上的对联有什么评价,结果五花八门的解释都有。有的不只是“望文生义”,而可称有创造性。比如:
正义与邪恶自古以来就像冰和炭一样,水火不能两立,这是说岳飞的为人正义,与邪恶势不两立,后句是说宁愿舍弃自己所得的名誉也要还别人一个清白,为人请命。

前句尚可,后句理解错了。让人听起来大有现代的“维权律师”之口气。

这样的理解,忽略了古人写对联时最基本的要求:“对仗”。所谓‘对仗’是左右上下都要对得上;名对名,动对动,虚词对虚词,实词对实词。或反过来,虚对实,动对静,上对下......如说的不清楚,那么我们将这些字符重新排列一下可能就比较容易看懂了:


正 邪 自 古 同 冰 炭,
毁 誉 于 今 判 伪 真。


1上1下——“正”的被“毁”了。(比如岳飞,不但声名扫地,命也没了。)
2上2下——“邪”的反而受到“赞誉”。(比如秦桧。)
3上3下——“自”-“于”=自从......vs.直到......
4上4下——“古”vs.“今”
5上5下——“同”=如同xx一样存在,“判”=分清楚了,今天终于真相大白了。
6-7上6-7下——“冰 vs.炭” ; “伪 vs.真”。

意思弄懂了,英文表达就比较容易着手了;选词用句的余地还不止一二,因为英文的同义词极为丰富,这时要注意的反而是前后所选的单词之间是否能搭配,即 correlation (among words)。初学者往往没想到的是:英文搭配,也要门当户对。以上联为例,拙译如下,且当抛砖。

正邪自古同冰炭,
Traits that have always existed in humans but never compatible are good and evil, just like ice and charcoal.

毁誉于今判伪真。
Reasons for condemnation or praise were often hard to validate until truth reveals that the opposite should be true.

SHEN TRANS 2020.1023.c

当然我这两块砖只是一种译法,即便理解与我相同的人还可以用第二、第三种译法。问题是如果真的引出了几块玉来,那么不光“玉”和“砖”的质地会有明显区别,而且玉与玉之间仍然会有区别,因为英文是极为具体、琐碎又细腻的东西。你选中的每个词都在给出明确的定义。而这些定义在中文原文里即使有所包含,也往往隐隐约约,并不明显。这些个“言下之意”正等着你这位当翻译的来帮它们“把话儿挑明了”。

If there was enough space in the title above, I would have added "from simplicity into complication" and "from profundity into specification."

我们常见的唐诗,往往有前辈翻译们留下的多个版本。在我看来,这种情况并非出于同行之间欲争高低,而主要是个体译者对宏博的中文所隐含的某一层“言下之意”更加在意,愿将其“呼之欲出”方为后快。

SHEN on TRANS 2020.1025

P.S.
A more concise version with less twist:

正邪自古同冰炭,
Good and evil are always incompatible, just like ice against charcoal.
毁誉于今判伪真.
Slander or fame all in claim often seemed right until judged by time.


[Edited at 2020-10-26 04:28 GMT]
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One more version Dec 25, 2020

正邪自古同冰炭,
毁誉于今判伪真。
All the while, goodness is to evil as charcoal is to ice,
Shame or fame 'til now is finally proved true or false.


David Shen wrote:

...

如要对上述结论做个说明,另一帖中所引用的那对楹联就是较好的例子:

正邪自古同冰炭,毁誉于今判伪真。


这两天我出于好奇,想看看现在的网民对这付刻在岳飞墓前石柱上的对联有什么评价,结果五花八门的解释都有。有的不只是“望文生义”,而可称有创造性。比如:
正义与邪恶自古以来就像冰和炭一样,水火不能两立,这是说岳飞的为人正义,与邪恶势不两立,后句是说宁愿舍弃自己所得的名誉也要还别人一个清白,为人请命。

前句尚可,后句理解错了。让人听起来大有现代的“维权律师”之口气。

这样的理解,忽略了古人写对联时最基本的要求:“对仗”。所谓‘对仗’是左右上下都要对得上;名对名,动对动,虚词对虚词,实词对实词。或反过来,虚对实,动对静,上对下......如说的不清楚,那么我们将这些字符重新排列一下可能就比较容易看懂了:


正 邪 自 古 同 冰 炭,
毁 誉 于 今 判 伪 真。


1上1下——“正”的被“毁”了。(比如岳飞,不但声名扫地,命也没了。)
2上2下——“邪”的反而受到“赞誉”。(比如秦桧。)
3上3下——“自”-“于”=自从......vs.直到......
4上4下——“古”vs.“今”
5上5下——“同”=如同xx一样存在,“判”=分清楚了,今天终于真相大白了。
6-7上6-7下——“冰 vs.炭” ; “伪 vs.真”。

意思弄懂了,英文表达就比较容易着手了;选词用句的余地还不止一二,因为英文的同义词极为丰富,这时要注意的反而是前后所选的单词之间是否能搭配,即 correlation (among words)。初学者往往没想到的是:英文搭配,也要门当户对。以上联为例,拙译如下,且当抛砖。

正邪自古同冰炭,
Traits that have always existed in humans but never compatible are good and evil, just like ice and charcoal.

毁誉于今判伪真。
Reasons for condemnation or praise were often hard to validate until truth reveals that the opposite should be true.

SHEN TRANS 2020.1023.c

当然我这两块砖只是一种译法,即便理解与我相同的人还可以用第二、第三种译法。问题是如果真的引出了几块玉来,那么不光“玉”和“砖”的质地会有明显区别,而且玉与玉之间仍然会有区别,因为英文是极为具体、琐碎又细腻的东西。你选中的每个词都在给出明确的定义。而这些定义在中文原文里即使有所包含,也往往隐隐约约,并不明显。这些个“言下之意”正等着你这位当翻译的来帮它们“把话儿挑明了”。

If there was enough space in the title above, I would have added "from simplicity into complication" and "from profundity into specification."

我们常见的唐诗,往往有前辈翻译们留下的多个版本。在我看来,这种情况并非出于同行之间欲争高低,而主要是个体译者对宏博的中文所隐含的某一层“言下之意”更加在意,愿将其“呼之欲出”方为后快。

SHEN on TRANS 2020.1025

P.S.
A more concise version with less twist:

正邪自古同冰炭,
Good and evil are always incompatible, just like ice against charcoal.
毁誉于今判伪真.
Slander or fame all in claim often seemed right until judged by time.


[Edited at 2020-10-26 04:28 GMT]


 
David Shen
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+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
From Stone to Jade Dec 25, 2020

Daaviid Woog wrote: One more version 02:58

正邪自古同冰炭,
毁誉于今判伪真。
All the while, goodness is to evil as charcoal is to ice,
Shame or fame 'til now is finally proved true or false.


《玉石之别》

后生工巧,比我的好。
玉出昆岗,可琢可雕。

D.S.2020.1225.a


 
Coupled-Up Couplet Dec 26, 2020

小厮向大师致敬。

The Rise of Modern China – Immanuel C. Y. Hsü (徐约中), 3rd ed. 1983, Oxford University Press 1983
page Kxiv:
… in the spirit of the Chinese saying “May the brick I have thrown attract jade from others”.

正邪自古同冰炭,
毁誉于今判伪真。
Good and evil equaled charcoal and ice,
Shame or fame turns truth or pretence.


David Shen wrote:

Daaviid Woog wrote: One more version 02:58

正邪自古同冰炭,
毁誉于今判伪真。
All the while, goodness is to evil as charcoal is to ice,
Shame or fame 'til now is finally proved true or false.


《玉石之别》

后生工巧,比我的好。
玉出昆岗,可琢可雕。

D.S.2020.1225.a


 
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翻译点滴 (Challenges in Interpretation)






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