| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Standalone terminology management / glossary creation software Thread poster: Gregory Lassale
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Hi all,
Up until now, I've been using word processors or spreadsheet programs to create and manage glossaries, but I was wondering if there were robust dedicated programs out there to help make the process more efficient. I did a search on here but the threads I found on the subject are quite old.
I'm mostly interested in a standalone app i.e. not a CAT tool's glossary features or a web-based service either (I am aware of termbases.eu).
All suggestions ar... See more Hi all,
Up until now, I've been using word processors or spreadsheet programs to create and manage glossaries, but I was wondering if there were robust dedicated programs out there to help make the process more efficient. I did a search on here but the threads I found on the subject are quite old.
I'm mostly interested in a standalone app i.e. not a CAT tool's glossary features or a web-based service either (I am aware of termbases.eu).
All suggestions are appreciated.
G.L. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Requirements | Dec 22, 2019 |
You’d rather not use a CAT tool for this. If you don’t mind me asking: which requirements can not be met by such a tool?
How would your term records look? How large would your termbases be? Etc.
BTW: The terminology apps of some CAT tools can be run as stand-alone apps.
| | | | | Terminology management | Dec 22, 2019 |
Gregory Lassale wrote:
Hi all,
Up until now, I've been using word processors or spreadsheet programs to create and manage glossaries, but I was wondering if there were robust dedicated programs out there to help make the process more efficient. I did a search on here but the threads I found on the subject are quite old.
I'm mostly interested in a standalone app i.e. not a CAT tool's glossary features or a web-based service either (I am aware of termbases.eu).
All suggestions are appreciated.
G.L.
Hi Gregory
I use this one
https://tshwanedje.com/terminology/
, very complex, steep learning curve especially for importing csv glossaries, but once you've got the knack of it, it's a good product.
Available for both Mac and Windows.
[Edited at 2019-12-22 08:50 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 09:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Gregory Lassale wrote:
I'm mostly interested in a standalone app.
So, you want to create glossaries, and "manage" them (what does that entail?), and presumably also search them in an intelligent kind of way (by typing a search query and then seeing a list of lists of results). What else do you want to be able to do with the glossaries (or with the search results)?
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Gregory Lassale
United States
Local time: 02:46
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Hans Lenting wrote:
You’d rather not use a CAT tool for this. If you don’t mind me asking: which requirements can not be met by such a tool?
How would your term records look? How large would your termbases be? Etc.
BTW: The terminology apps of some CAT tools can be run as stand-alone apps.
My personal preference is for dedicated applications. They are also usually more powerful at what they do. Around 500 entries but would be growing over time.
| | | | Gregory Lassale
United States
Local time: 02:46
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Samuel Murray wrote: Gregory Lassale wrote:
I'm mostly interested in a standalone app. So, you want to create glossaries, and "manage" them (what does that entail?), and presumably also search them in an intelligent kind of way (by typing a search query and then seeing a list of lists of results). What else do you want to be able to do with the glossaries (or with the search results)?
A few of the features I am looking for:
- Search feature by term and categories.
- Indexing.
- Ability to create nested subcategories.
- Ability to import and export in a variety of formats (CSV, DOCX, EXCEL, PDF...).
- Multilingual databases (as in more than 2).
- Note section.
- Hyperlinking capability (to web pages).
- Synonyms section (referencing and linking to synonyms within the database).
- Gender selection.
- Editing (duh).
The term base I use for one of my clients contains many “Franglais” terms and anglicisms that are not in any official dictionary i.e. their usage (gender, spelling, conjugation...) often varies from one person/company to the next, so I need the flexibility to reference those things, edit terms as needed and, for example, enter verb conjugations.
That’s just off the the top of my head.
Thanks.
G.L.
[Edited at 2019-12-22 12:26 GMT]
| | | | Gregory Lassale
United States
Local time: 02:46
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Wolfgang Schoene wrote: Hi Gregory I use this one https://tshwanedje.com/terminology/ , very complex, steep learning curve especially for importing csv glossaries, but once you've got the knack of it, it's a good product. Available for both Mac and Windows. [Edited at 2019-12-22 08:50 GMT]
Thank you! I will definitely check it out.
| | | | | A CAT tool (CafeTran Espresso) for terminology management/glossary | Dec 22, 2019 |
Hello Gregory,
I understand you are mostly seeking a standalone tool (that works on MacOS), and I don't have such a software suggestion in mind.
However, I suggest that you don't completely rule out CAT tools for terminology management just yet.
For example, CafeTran Espresso (which I understand you use or at least have a licence for, that is why I'm making this recommendation) fits most of the requirements you have listed, maybe with a few exceptions. If y... See more Hello Gregory,
I understand you are mostly seeking a standalone tool (that works on MacOS), and I don't have such a software suggestion in mind.
However, I suggest that you don't completely rule out CAT tools for terminology management just yet.
For example, CafeTran Espresso (which I understand you use or at least have a licence for, that is why I'm making this recommendation) fits most of the requirements you have listed, maybe with a few exceptions. If you do use this tool for some of your work, there are also some added benefits compared to using a standalone tool (especially for adding new terms, etc.).
CafeTran supports Multilingual glossaries, Synonyms, Searching by term and category (see the Search options in the Glossary context menu), Hyperlinking (both local and online URLs and images) and having a Notes section.
You can use it with a tab-delimited TXT glossary (default), which can be converted to CSV/TSV just by changing the extension name (it can also open a CSV/TSV glossary without the need to import/convert it). Editing and glossary maintenance tasks can be run inside CafeTran or in a separate tool. Indeed, CSV can be easily edited in a number of applications (LibreOffice, for example, or the excellent Ron's Editor, which can be run on a Mac via PlayOnMac [free] or CrossOver [paid]) and saved in Excel format or exported in PDF format. Various tools support converting between additional glossary/termbase formats, depending on your needs.
In Preferences > Glossary, you can also dedicate a specific column for specifying the gender, conjugation details, etc. (adding a pipeline before the ending can also help catching source glossary entries without specifying all alternatives).
I'm not sure about indexing (what does this entail?), and nested subcategories could require some tweaking (assigning a numbering system or using a second column for subcategories).
Plus, you can add non-translatable terms (as a separate list or integrated in the same glossary), and run specific QA checks for glossary entries and word lists.
Jean
[Edited at 2019-12-22 19:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| MultiTerm (standalone) | Dec 22, 2019 |
Gregory Lassale wrote:
I was wondering if there were robust dedicated programs out there to help make the process more efficient.
Many translators I know use MultiTerm. I know MultiTerm is often associated with Trados, but it is a standalone program that is "also" included when you buy Trados, and of course it work well *with* Trados, but it also works well without Trados. I don't use MultiTerm myself, but I know many translators are quite satisfied with it and have years' worth of terminology stored in it.
MultiTerm on its own costs €250 for a perpetual license. You can also buy Trados, and then it's included in the deal, but you don't need to use (or even install) Trados to use it. Trados currently costs €469 for a perpetual license.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l_54O4iyno
Edited: Apparently a "Trados Starter" license is not a "Trados Studio" license, and so MultiTerm is not included with it.
==
Added: For comparison, tlTerm Standalone is €120, LogiTerm is €800.
[Edited at 2019-12-23 10:17 GMT]
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:46
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Termbases and TMs | Dec 23, 2019 |
Gregory Lassale wrote:
Up until now, I've been using word processors or spreadsheet programs to create and manage glossaries...
Like Gregory I am looking for glossary tools. I have dozens and dozens of both termbases (and translation memories) in SDL Trados Studio format (so .sdltb and .sdltm). I would like to be able to search these in a structured fashion (i.e. not grep) and without having to start Studio and attach/remove things.
I have looked at LogiTerm and tlTerm, but they don't seem to do quite what I want.
Gregory, have you looked at LogiTerm? Terminotix is local to you, I think, and while I haven't found them responsive by email they may be better on the phone.
Regards,
Dan
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Glossary features in CAT tools | Dec 23, 2019 |
Gregory Lassale wrote:
A few of the features I am looking for:
...
- Editing (duh).
Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
For example, CafeTran Espresso ... fits most of the requirements you have listed, maybe with a few exceptions.
I've had a look at CafeTran's glossary feature and it seems to be at the bottom end of the scale w.r.t. feature richness (better than OmegaT, WFP3 and WFP5, but rather worse than WFC, and of course far worse than MemoQ). For one, CafeTran's glossary feature does not really have "editing". To "edit" a CafeTran glossary requires an external program, e.g. Notepad or Excel.
My first thought upon reading the original post was also "why not consider using a CAT tool's glossary feature", but after looking at what some CAT tools actually offer, I have come to the conclusion that (apart from MultiTerm, which is a standalone tool), no CAT tool has a comprehensive glossary feature.
OmegaT doesn't have a glossary viewer (and hence no glossary editor either). OmegaT glossaries are single-language combination tab-delimited plaintext files with three fields per record (source, target, description). You can search OmegaT glossaries from within the general "Find" dialog, and results are shown in the general Find results pane. Wordfast Pro 3 and Wordfast Pro 5 uses "Wordfast Classic" glossaries (which theoretically supports an unlimited number of fields per record, but only 3 or sometimes 6 of those fields are "seen" by the CAT tool), but neither WFP3 nor WFP5 has a glossary viewer. In fact, you can't even send the glossary to a text editor directly from WFP3 or WFP5. I don't even know if you can search glossaries from within WFP3 or WFP5.
Wordfast Classic does have a simple glossary editor, and while it has bulk editing features, and sorting and some filtering, it basically shows a list of terms (including fields after field #2 if you know where to enable it), and if you double-click a term, you can edit the four additional fields, e.g. description, but the three final fields are free-form (i.e. not defined). You can search glossaries from within WFC (WFC can search up to 3 glossaries simultaneously) and then click the button next to the result to view the term's additional fields and/or to edit the entry.
CafeTran glossaries (see here) are also tab delimited plain text files, and while CafeTran glossaries can be multilingual and can contain e.g. synonyms, and while you can view a list of terms from within CafeTran, you can't edit terms from within CafeTran (well, you can edit the source and target text from within CafeTran, but nothing else). You can't sort terms nor filter them (except alphabetically). You can choose which fields you want to view in the viewer (i.e. if your glossary has a "description" field but you don't want to see it in the viewer, you can "hide" that field in the viewer). Also, the format uses multiple values in a single field (e.g. all synonyms of a term are contained in a single cell), which makes it very difficult to edit it even in Excel, unless you first convert it to another format. (I don't have CafeTran, so my knowledge about CafeTran is based on the official videos and user manual.) Also, you can only view a glossary when a project is open, and you can only create a project if you add a source file, so you have to create dummy.txt with the word "asdf" in it before you can use your glossary.
Essentially, all these CAT tools (OmegaT, WFP3 and 5, WFC and CafeTran) have a very simple plaintext tab-delimited glossary format, none or very simplistic glossary viewing, and/or none or very limited glossary editing capabilities.
MemoQ's "termbase" feature (see here) is somewhat more comprehensive. The termbase viewer/editor hasn't really changed over the past half a decade, so even if you watch videos on YouTube for older versions, you'll see what the current version looks like. But even MemoQ's termbase functionality is quite limited. For example, you can't add languages to a termbase afterwards. You can specify multiple languages when you create the termbase, but you can't add more languages later. You can only view two languages at a time (even if the termbase has more than two). AFAIK you can only add one domain per term. It does offer the ability to specify grammatical, morphological etc. characteristics on a per term per language basis, although it requires a lot of clicking to get to it, and you can only view such information for a single term at a time. You can search and filter by any of the fields, which is nice, and perform certain bulk editing tasks. I'm not sure about hyperlinks, but you can add images to terms. (I don't have MemoQ, so my knowledge about MemoQ is based on videos and the official user manual.)
Anyway, MemoQ costs €620, so it's not really worth looking at. There used to have a free version of MemoQ, but you could not use existing glossaries with it.
[Edited at 2019-12-23 10:41 GMT]
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@Dan,
For standalone searching (not editing), I suggest you try TMLookup, although STLTMs and STLTBs require conversion (the tool supports TMX and tab delimited UTF-8 txt).
http://farkastranslations.com/tmlookup.php
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@Samuel,
Since this post is in Apple/Mac operating systems, it is safe to assume Gregory seeks a tool that works... See more @Dan,
For standalone searching (not editing), I suggest you try TMLookup, although STLTMs and STLTBs require conversion (the tool supports TMX and tab delimited UTF-8 txt).
http://farkastranslations.com/tmlookup.php
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@Samuel,
Since this post is in Apple/Mac operating systems, it is safe to assume Gregory seeks a tool that works on a Mac.
Unless one wishes to use a VM (many do, but handing terminology via a VM is probably unwieldy), a standalone tool such as Multiterm or Logiterm, or a CAT tool such as MemoQ is out of the picture.
I know Gregory has used CafeTran, hence the suggestion, especially since most required functionality is there.
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I don't wish to make comparisons, but from what you describe, I don't think WFC is ahead from CafeTran with respect to terminology handling.
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Regarding the points you make on CafeTran:
You actually CAN edit any and all fields from a glossary entry in CafeTran. The help video you link to just shows source and target because no additional fields have been defined in preferences. That video is for beginners, the Glossary menu is even hidden, by default, in CafeTran.
You can have 8 different category columns (by default, Notes, Context, Client, Subject, Reference, and three user defined, but each can be user defined if needed) and 8 different languages (locales).
You can clone entries, being able to reuse fields, etc.
One way to tackle synonyms is via the semi-colon (both in source and target), in a single line, but you can of course have separate entries.
The beauty of TAB-del TXT glossaries is their simplicity. They can easily be renamed to TSV/CSV and edited in a Spreadsheet or CSV editor.
Of course, their simplicity also means they have limits.
CafeTran also offers a TMX termbase feature, where you can store fragments (terms, phraseology, etc.) [and TBX and SDLTB files are imported as TMX files in CafeTran].
In fact you can use either (or both) a TXT glossary or a TMX termbase.
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Each translator has their own requirements.
I would say that in most cases, being able to quickly add and search terminology, plus edit on the fly existing entries while working on given a project (and in that, I think CafeTran excels) and flexibly reuse in the future is sufficient. For Tab dels and CSVs, actually being able to easily make adjustments in an external tool is a feature, not a limitation.
Of course, some linguists, and most certainly terminologists may require a more complex organisation, and that's fine.
It's just that when I assess my needs, I start by looking at what I already have.
Cheers,
Jean
[Edited at 2019-12-23 11:04 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| CafeTran Espresso offers great support for glossaries | Dec 23, 2019 |
I agree with Jean's reply to your posting. Here is some additional info:
Samuel Murray wrote:
You can't sort terms nor filter them (except alphabetically). You can choose which fields you want to view in the viewer (i.e. if your glossary has a "description" field but you don't want to see it in the viewer, you can "hide" that field in the viewer).
(I won't answer in detail here, since this is not the CafeTran Espresso forum.)
- You can actually filter on glossary terms (via the Find dialogue box).
- You can actually bulk edit glossary terms (via the Find dialogue box). A very powerful feature.
- You can open any glossary via the context menu and edit in any text editor or CSV editor.
- You can actually hide glossary fields.
- You can use very smart features to optimise your glossaries for auto-assembling, via merging on source terms.
- You can sort glossaries on length of the source term.
- You can sort glossaries alphabetically on source terms.
- And many more ...
| | | | Gregory Lassale
United States
Local time: 02:46
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
As Jean noted, this is the Apple/Mac OS forum and I am looking for something that runs natively on macOS.
Logiterm is PC only and a whopping $875. That's absolutely nuts when a fully fledged CAT tool like Cafetran costs 4 times less. I checked out tlTerm... The GUI is buggy and badly antiquated. Apparently, modern UIs are an afterthought for many software companies, but then again that doesn't seem to be something that the language professionals community values much. All in all, t... See more As Jean noted, this is the Apple/Mac OS forum and I am looking for something that runs natively on macOS.
Logiterm is PC only and a whopping $875. That's absolutely nuts when a fully fledged CAT tool like Cafetran costs 4 times less. I checked out tlTerm... The GUI is buggy and badly antiquated. Apparently, modern UIs are an afterthought for many software companies, but then again that doesn't seem to be something that the language professionals community values much. All in all, there doesn't seem to be many (any?) options for what I'm looking for, especially on Mac. I guess that shouldn't be all that surprising given that it's a niche market within a niche market within a niche market.
[Edited at 2019-12-23 13:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Gregory Lassale wrote:
I checked out tlTerm... The GUI is buggy and badly antiquated. Apparently, modern UIs are an afterthought for many software companies, but then again that doesn't seem something that the language professionals community values much.
Perhaps you can persuade Joachim to develop a dedicated terms app or to enhance Xoterm with some features that would make it useable for terms storage and retrieval?
https://www.proz.com/forum/apple_mac_operating_systems/338386-[hype]_xoterm_116_released.html
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