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Leaving the EU - what does this mean for us?
Thread poster: Maaike van Vlijmen
Michael Beijer
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parliamentary petition calling for a second referendum Jun 25, 2016

Not sure if it will have any effect, but please make sure to sign the parliamentary petition calling for a second referendum. See: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/petition-second-eu-referendum-crashes-house-of-commons-website (1,769,378 people have already... See more
Not sure if it will have any effect, but please make sure to sign the parliamentary petition calling for a second referendum. See: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/petition-second-eu-referendum-crashes-house-of-commons-website (1,769,378 people have already signed!)

The petition is here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

I think that leaving the EU is a bad idea in terms of how it will affect us EU citizens living here in the UK.

Michael

updated to add: 2,048,377 signatures by now!

[Edited at 2016-06-25 17:43 GMT]

updated to add: 2,394,984 signatures by now!

[Edited at 2016-06-25 20:37 GMT]
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Tom in London
Tom in London
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News Jun 25, 2016

Yes - this petition is gaining momentum and is now a big subject on BBC News. I have signed it -currently 1,788,585 signatures.

[Edited at 2016-06-25 15:47 GMT]


 
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
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What this means... Jun 25, 2016

As a former EU staff member (retired now) I’m also thinking about all the British colleagues working at the EU institutions who will find unemployment soon. Some were seen crying yesterday…

[Edited at 2016-06-25 17:48 GMT]


 
Jack Doughty
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In memoriam
A second referendum? Jun 25, 2016

"The people have spoken, the bastards." (Dick Tuck's concession speech following his loss in the 1966 California State Senate election.) How like the EU and its supporters to want a second referendum if the first one produces the "wrong" result. Vote Leave won with a majority of over 1.2 million (which included me). I want to live in a sovereign democracy, not an obscure little offshore county of the United States of Europe, or the Republic of Europa (I doubt if "united states" would satisfy the... See more
"The people have spoken, the bastards." (Dick Tuck's concession speech following his loss in the 1966 California State Senate election.) How like the EU and its supporters to want a second referendum if the first one produces the "wrong" result. Vote Leave won with a majority of over 1.2 million (which included me). I want to live in a sovereign democracy, not an obscure little offshore county of the United States of Europe, or the Republic of Europa (I doubt if "united states" would satisfy them, they want one state) with half its laws and 70% of its regulations made by faceless unelected officials over whom we have no control.
If they do get a second referendum, I shall start a petition against it.

[Edited at 2016-06-25 18:09 GMT]
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Eileen Cartoon
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But to get back to the actual question Jun 25, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

but working it out - along with about a million other problems -is going to be quite a task .

[Edited at 2016-06-25 14:03 GMT]


I think this will bring in tons of work for those who translate legal and beaurocratic documents. Now the UK will have to negotiate 27 contracts for everything related to what was once the EU


 
Michael Beijer
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1-2% shouldn't be enough to win sth this important Jun 25, 2016

Jack Doughty wrote:

"The people have spoken, the bastards." (Dick Tuck's concession speech following his loss in the 1966 California State Senate election.) How like the EU and its supporters to want a second referendum if the first one produces the "wrong" result. Vote Leave won with a majority of over 1.2 million (which included me). I want to live in a sovereign democracy, not an obscure little offshore county of the United States of Europe, or the Republic of Europa (I doubt if "united states" would satisfy them, they want one state) with half its laws and 70% of its regulations made by faceless unelected officials over whom we have no control.
If they do get a second referendum, I shall start a petition against it.

[Edited at 2016-06-25 18:09 GMT]


I think that a lot of people who voted Leave didn't fully understand what they were actually voting for (see the complete about-turn of Farage re the NHS money issue), and there are reports of many people who voted Leave having second thoughts (members of my own family included!)). That, and the fact that 1-2% hardly seems enough to justify such a monumental change, seem to justify a second referendum.

Michael


 
Michael Beijer
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Have a look at who funded the ‘Out’ campaign: Jun 25, 2016

Jack Doughty wrote:

"The people have spoken, the bastards." (Dick Tuck's concession speech following his loss in the 1966 California State Senate election.) How like the EU and its supporters to want a second referendum if the first one produces the "wrong" result. Vote Leave won with a majority of over 1.2 million (which included me). I want to live in a sovereign democracy, not an obscure little offshore county of the United States of Europe, or the Republic of Europa (I doubt if "united states" would satisfy them, they want one state) with half its laws and 70% of its regulations made by faceless unelected officials over whom we have no control.
If they do get a second referendum, I shall start a petition against it.

[Edited at 2016-06-25 18:09 GMT]


-> https://waitingfortax.com/2016/06/22/the-out-campaign-and-the-attitude-to-tax-of-its-funders/ (that pretty much says it all)


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
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Who's out and who's in Jun 25, 2016

Some commenters here are in the UK. Others are not.

For those who are not, everything remains as it was.

For those who are in the UK, everything has changed completely.

It is important to bear that difference in mind, when offering suggestions and advice.

PS just received this message from a friend in Italy:

"Nessuna si aspetterebbe l 'uscita di Gran Bretagna da EU, scherzi a parte, nessuna avrebbe preso sul serio Farage. Aspetto t
... See more
Some commenters here are in the UK. Others are not.

For those who are not, everything remains as it was.

For those who are in the UK, everything has changed completely.

It is important to bear that difference in mind, when offering suggestions and advice.

PS just received this message from a friend in Italy:

"Nessuna si aspetterebbe l 'uscita di Gran Bretagna da EU, scherzi a parte, nessuna avrebbe preso sul serio Farage. Aspetto tue riflessioni in merito. Noi qui incredulo continuiamo a fare analisi delle più disparate,.bisogna vivere in Inghilterra per sentire il polso"

[Edited at 2016-06-25 21:59 GMT]
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Maciek Drobka
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Not 1-2% Jun 25, 2016

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:

Jack Doughty wrote:

"The people have spoken, the bastards." (Dick Tuck's concession speech following his loss in the 1966 California State Senate election.) How like the EU and its supporters to want a second referendum if the first one produces the "wrong" result. Vote Leave won with a majority of over 1.2 million (which included me). I want to live in a sovereign democracy, not an obscure little offshore county of the United States of Europe, or the Republic of Europa (I doubt if "united states" would satisfy them, they want one state) with half its laws and 70% of its regulations made by faceless unelected officials over whom we have no control.
If they do get a second referendum, I shall start a petition against it.

[Edited at 2016-06-25 18:09 GMT]


I think that a lot of people who voted Leave didn't fully understand what they were actually voting for (see the complete about-turn of Farage re the NHS money issue), and there are reports of many people who voted Leave having second thoughts (members of my own family included!)). That, and the fact that 1-2% hardly seems enough to justify such a monumental change, seem to justify a second referendum.

Michael


Michael, if my math is correct, Leave won by almost 4%.

And, would you also be supporting a new referendum if Remain had won by a similarly narrow margin?

(Edited to clarify my question.)

[Edited at 2016-06-25 20:13 GMT]


 
Matthias Brombach
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I´m pretty sure that... Jun 25, 2016

Maaike van Vlijmen wrote:
I guess I should just wait and see what's going to happen before worrying too much about the future


...at the end of the day the EU tries to please the UK much enough so that everything on an economical level will remain nearly the same in order not to endanger the mutual economical dependencies after the UK formally has left the EU after two years or so. The UK will just have more freedom to push through the populistic reasons which caused the referendum: No more payments to the EU budget, no work immigrants, no refugees.

[Edited at 2016-06-25 20:25 GMT]


 
Michael Beijer
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Yes Jun 25, 2016

Maciek Drobka wrote:

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:

Jack Doughty wrote:

"The people have spoken, the bastards." (Dick Tuck's concession speech following his loss in the 1966 California State Senate election.) How like the EU and its supporters to want a second referendum if the first one produces the "wrong" result. Vote Leave won with a majority of over 1.2 million (which included me). I want to live in a sovereign democracy, not an obscure little offshore county of the United States of Europe, or the Republic of Europa (I doubt if "united states" would satisfy them, they want one state) with half its laws and 70% of its regulations made by faceless unelected officials over whom we have no control.
If they do get a second referendum, I shall start a petition against it.

[Edited at 2016-06-25 18:09 GMT]


I think that a lot of people who voted Leave didn't fully understand what they were actually voting for (see the complete about-turn of Farage re the NHS money issue), and there are reports of many people who voted Leave having second thoughts (members of my own family included!)). That, and the fact that 1-2% hardly seems enough to justify such a monumental change, seem to justify a second referendum.

Michael


Michael, if my math is correct, Leave won by almost 4%.

And, would you also be supporting a new referendum if Remain had won by a similarly narrow margin?

(Edited to clarify my question.)

[Edited at 2016-06-25 20:13 GMT]


Yes, something this big deserves multiple referendums and extreme caution.

The Leave camp won by playing on people's fear of immigration. However, actually leaving the EU will have so many more effects than only on immigration, that it is simply insane. Depriving the UK of free access to the world's largest single market, because you think leaving the EU will magically solve your immigration problem is lunacy. It won't solve it. The UK will leave the EU, and all the same old problems will still exist. The man on the street will still think the Poles are stealing his job.

Michael


 
Michael Beijer
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more power to the populists Jun 25, 2016

Matthias Brombach wrote:

Maaike van Vlijmen wrote:
I guess I should just wait and see what's going to happen before worrying too much about the future


...at the end of the day the EU tries to please the UK much enough so that everything on an economical level will remain nearly the same in order not to endanger the mutual economical dependencies after the UK formally has left the EU after two years or so. The UK will just have more freedom to push through the populistic reasons which caused the referendum: No more payments to the EU budget, no work immigrants, no refugees.

[Edited at 2016-06-25 20:25 GMT]


Just what the UK needs: more power to the populists

This whole thing is just one big disaster waiting to happen.


 
Mirko Mainardi
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Italy
Local time: 21:49
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The rules of the game Jun 25, 2016

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:

Yes, something this big deserves multiple referendums and extreme caution.


The rules of the game should be defined before the game starts, not after it's over...

Cameron promised a referendum to get re-elected, but if he really was against the Brexit, he could've simply decided that such a momentous decision deserved a qualified majority, for instance... ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajority )

At any rate, by the looks of it, I guess this thread is pining for the fjords, like the other one that got squashed this morning...


 
Michael Beijer
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2,469,726 signatures and counting … Jun 25, 2016

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:

Yes, something this big deserves multiple referendums and extreme caution.


The rules of the game should be defined before the game starts, not after it's over...

Cameron promised a referendum to get re-elected, but if he really was against the Brexit, he could've simply decided that such a momentous decision deserved a qualified majority, for instance... ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajority )

At any rate, by the looks of it, I guess this thread is pining for the fjords, like the other one that got squashed this morning...


Yes, I agree. This ought to have been defined prior to embarking on this lunacy. However, it wasn't, and I think that it wouldn't be too crazy to do so retroactively in this case. 2,469,726 people have already signed the petition! Surely these people's voice should also count for something?

Leaving may allow Farage et al. to tighten the borders somewhat, but I guarantee you no extra money will end up going to the NHS or those in need, and I doubt it will have a very good effect on business either.

Probably right about the thread though


 
Dan Lucas
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Really? Petition beats referendum? Jun 25, 2016

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
Surely these people's voice should also count for something?

Surely the referendum should count for something, rather than repeated for Remain's sake until it gets the result they want? (Although there are no guarantees that would happen. Already the idea of Brexit is more familiar and therefore likely to be perceived as less of a leap into the dark than it was two days ago.)

The country has expressed its view. The loss of one party is a concomitant of majority voting. One side wins, one side loses. It's time to move on.

And yes, this thread likely gets zapped when the mods notice it, so long answers are probably a waste of time!

Dan


 
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Leaving the EU - what does this mean for us?






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