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wherestip  Identity Verified
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FWIW Jul 18, 2016

Fargoer wrote:

总觉得“永耽”、“永歇”都不是很贴切。改为“永驻”如何?



How about "永留"、"永滞"、"永存"、"永置"? 


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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China's "Good Will Hunting" Jul 18, 2016

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/17/asia/china-migrant-worker-good-will-hunting/index.html



Beijing (CNN)A Chinese migrant worker with no college degree has found a solution to a complex math problem -- in what appears to be a real life version of the Oscar-winning movie "Good Will Hunting."

Yu Jianchun, who works for a parcel delivery company, said he'd always had a passion for numbers and has created an alternative method to verify Carmichael numbers.

His solution amazed academics, who said his proof was much more efficient than the traditional one.

"It was a very imaginative solution," said Cai Tianxin, a math professor at Zhejiang University.

"He has never received any systematic training in number theory nor taken advanced math classes. All he has is an instinct and an extreme sensitivity to numbers."

Carmichael numbers are sometimes described as "pseudo primes" -- they complicate the task of determining true prime numbers, which are divisable only by 1 and itself. They play an important role in computer science and information security.

Yu worked on his proof during his free time while building a new home in his village last year.

"I was overwhelmed with joy, because my solution was completely different to the classic algorithm," said Yu.
...



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David Lin  Identity Verified
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Moderator ovog foruma
永在 Jul 18, 2016

wherestip wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

总觉得“永耽”、“永歇”都不是很贴切。改为“永驻”如何?



How about "永留"、"永滞"、"永存"、"永置"? 


翻译为文言实非我所长,不知道 “永在” = always present, 会否易明一点?

但是后面那句可能需要稍为更改:

若此即永而无往。。。

供参考。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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永在 Jul 18, 2016

David Lin wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

总觉得“永耽”、“永歇”都不是很贴切。改为“永驻”如何?



How about "永留"、"永滞"、"永存"、"永置"? 


翻译为文言实非我所长,不知道 “永在” = always present, 会否易明一点?

但是后面那句可能需要稍为更改:

若此即永而无往。。。

供参考。


I agree with you, David.

But I think Fargoer is trying to avoid being repetitious by using the character "在" too many times. Actually, my suggestion of using "永存" has the same problem BTW.


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Never mind Jul 18, 2016

I agree.

>> 若此即永在,止而无往


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Fargoer
Kanada
Local time: 04:53
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谢谢您的高见 Jul 19, 2016

David Lin wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

总觉得“永耽”、“永歇”都不是很贴切。改为“永驻”如何?



How about "永留"、"永滞"、"永存"、"永置"? 


翻译为文言实非我所长,不知道 “永在” = always present, 会否易明一点?

但是后面那句可能需要稍为更改:

若此即永而无往。。。

供参考。


我想改为:

此即永在,住而无往……。

不过这个“永在”不是对应“ always present ” 而是对应 " is always" 这个语素。“present" 已有“此即”与之对应。

Wherestip 说的对,我是不想反复用“在”字。这里有了“在”,后面就要改。您建议的“止”字不错。不过我又想到佛家好像有把“住”与“往”对照的用法,所以我现在更倾向于“住而无往”。

现在的版本是:

往者已往,已往何存?来着未来,未来安在?此即永在,住而无往,则时非其时,是为泥洹。

欢迎继续批评。


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Fargoer
Kanada
Local time: 04:53
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谢谢您的建议 Jul 19, 2016

wherestip wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

总觉得“永耽”、“永歇”都不是很贴切。改为“永驻”如何?



How about "永留"、"永滞"、"永存"、"永置"? 


我考虑过“永滞”。后来发现句子里三点水太多了,有点陷入泥潭的感觉。 再说了,水太多就是钱太多,怕没地儿花。

此外,“泥洹”一语借自佛家。取其“无始无终,永存绵绵”之意。而且,“泥洹”是死后的境界,和“eternity"这个英文词在基督教中的涵义也契合。我不喜欢的是这两个字都有三点水。容易生出泥泞洹水之联想。您看把它们的三点水去掉行吗?至少把前面那个去掉,写成“尼洹”? 


[修改时间: 2016-07-19 07:16 GMT]


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QHE
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“eternity” Jul 20, 2016

Fargoer wrote:

David Lin wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

总觉得“永耽”、“永歇”都不是很贴切。改为“永驻”如何?



How about "永留"、"永滞"、"永存"、"永置"? 


翻译为文言实非我所长,不知道 “永在” = always present, 会否易明一点?

但是后面那句可能需要稍为更改:

若此即永而无往。。。

供参考。


我想改为:

此即永在,住而无往……。

不过这个“永在”不是对应“ always present ” 而是对应 " is always" 这个语素。“present" 已有“此即”与之对应。

Wherestip 说的对,我是不想反复用“在”字。这里有了“在”,后面就要改。您建议的“止”字不错。不过我又想到佛家好像有把“住”与“往”对照的用法,所以我现在更倾向于“住而无往”。

现在的版本是:

往者已往,已往何存?来着未来,未来安在?此即永在,住而无往,则时非其时,是为泥洹。

欢迎继续批评。



“止”好像没能表达出一种前后持续的状态。“永在”的"在"可以有双层解读;为了避免重复,不知能不能把“此即永在,住而无往”合二为一 (不过,我文言文知识很有限,通常要借助注释甚至“译文”才能理解。:D 所以,建议很可能是错的)。 另外,我觉得 “eternity” 直接译为“永恒”也很好。像这样:

往者已往,已往何存?来者未来,未来安在?若此永在无往,则时非其时,是为永恒。


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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加點禪意 Jul 20, 2016

往者已往,已往何存? -> 往者已往, 既往何存?

来者未来 -> 來者不至

则时非其时,是为永恒 -> 則時亦非時,無窮也!

[Edited at 2016-07-20 15:21 GMT]


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David Lin  Identity Verified
Velika Britanija
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Moderator ovog foruma
永恒 vs 無窮 Jul 21, 2016

pkchan wrote:

往者已往,已往何存? -> 往者已往, 既往何存?

来者未来 -> 來者不至

则时非其时,是为永恒 -> 則時亦非時,無窮也!

[Edited at 2016-07-20 15:21 GMT]


個人同意,用 “既” 和 “不至” 好像比較順口及更切合原文的意思。

但是 “無窮” 好像同 “永恒” 有點差別?

同意 QHE 的看法, 用 “永恒” 好像較貼題。

”泥洹“ 教我想起 “泥濘” 或 “泥漿浴” mud spa(一笑),而不會想到 “圓寂” 、 “死亡” 或 ”往生“。

不過,還想不通 QHE 所言與原文有何出入:

“止” 好像没能表达出一种前后持续的状态。“永在” 的 "在" 可以有双层解读


原文想表達 ”前后持续“ 的狀態,”永在“ 不是已經表達了 ”always present“ 嗎?

”止“ 或 ”住“ 是要表達 “never moved on ....”

何況我們不能將 “永在” 一分為二來解讀,不然 ”男性“ 的 ”性“ 單獨意思也有好幾個呢,例如:性別、性格、性情等。

原文是:
Saint Augustine 也说过:
“How can the past and future be, when the past no longer is, and the future is not yet? As for the present, if it were always present and never moved on to become the past, it would not be time, but eternity.”


一點愚見,供參考 。


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Fargoer
Kanada
Local time: 04:53
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妙! Jul 22, 2016

pkchan wrote:

往者已往,已往何存? -> 往者已往, 既往何存?

来者未来 -> 來者不至

则时非其时,是为永恒 -> 則時亦非時,無窮也!

[Edited at 2016-07-20 15:21 GMT]


大叔您这个不仅有禅意,而且是方便法门。

来者不至,顿入泥洹。

阿弥陀佛!  

[修改时间: 2016-07-22 00:25 GMT]


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Fargoer
Kanada
Local time: 04:53
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最凝练版本 Jul 22, 2016

QHE wrote:
 
往者已往,已往何存?来者未来,未来安在?若此永在无往,则时非其时,是为永恒。


如果“在”作双重理解,“往”也作双重理解。原文的意思全在,什么也没少。


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QHE
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FWIW Jul 22, 2016

David Lin wrote:

不過,還想不通 QHE 所言與原文有何出入:
“止” 好像没能表达出一种前后持续的状态。“永在” 的 "在" 可以有双层解读


原文想表達 ”前后持续“ 的狀態,”永在“ 不是已經表達了 ”always present“ 嗎?

”止“ 或 ”住“ 是要表達 “never moved on ....”



David,

我可能写得过于简略了,再解释一下。
QHE wrote: "eternity"

“止” 好像没能表达出一种前后持续的状态。


正是因为要贴切地表达 "never moved on ... ",所以我觉得"止",有别于 "留"、"存"、"住"...;"止"字多少意味着前面某种进行状态或运动的中断 (嘎然而止),还是没能更好地表达出一种持续的状态。当然,"止"字也是不错的选择,只是相对而言。

QHE wrote: "eternity"

“永在”的"在"可以有双层解读;为了避免重复,不知能不能把“此即永在,住而无往”合二为一


正如 Steve 所说,Fargoer 在尽量避免反复使用"在"字,我于是想到了“合二为一”。因为"在"可以理解为现在,存在和呈现;所以我想以 “若此永在无往” 对应原文中的 "if it were always present and never moved on to become the past”.


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David Lin  Identity Verified
Velika Britanija
Local time: 11:53
Član (2013)
engleski na kineski
+ ...

Moderator ovog foruma
一语道破! Jul 22, 2016

QHE wrote:

David Lin wrote:

不過,還想不通 QHE 所言與原文有何出入:
“止” 好像没能表达出一种前后持续的状态。“永在” 的 "在" 可以有双层解读


原文想表達 ”前后持续“ 的狀態,”永在“ 不是已經表達了 ”always present“ 嗎?

”止“ 或 ”住“ 是要表達 “never moved on ....”



David,

我可能写得过于简略了,再解释一下。
QHE wrote: "eternity"

“止” 好像没能表达出一种前后持续的状态。


正是因为要贴切地表达 "never moved on ... ",所以我觉得"止",有别于 "留"、"存"、"住"...;"止"字多少意味着前面某种进行状态或运动的中断 (嘎然而止),还是没能更好地表达出一种持续的状态。当然,"止"字也是不错的选择,只是相对而言。

QHE wrote: "eternity"

“永在”的"在"可以有双层解读;为了避免重复,不知能不能把“此即永在,住而无往”合二为一


正如 Steve 所说,Fargoer 在尽量避免反复使用"在"字,我于是想到了“合二为一”。因为"在"可以理解为现在,存在和呈现;所以我想以 “若此永在无往” 对应原文中的 "if it were always present and never moved on to become the past”.


QHE,

谢谢你详尽的解释。

不是你写得太简略,可能是因为最近伦敦这边超热 (其实只有 32-35 ℃),刚从剑桥公干回来,火车差点儿被取消;炎夏酷暑,我的小脑袋一时转不过来呢。

我其实很喜欢你的修词,简单到位,且掷地有声。因此只想了解多一点你的思路而已。

再谢。

顺祝各位同仁周末愉快!


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ysun  Identity Verified
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中国水深、美国火热 Jul 23, 2016

Fargoer wrote:

水太多就是钱太多,怕没地儿花。

水太多就怕钱不够花!不知老天能否把中国的雨下到美国来?不知那国务院副总理面对从南到北的一片片汪洋,是否还会说“在中国文化里水为财,这下的不是雨,下的是美元和人民币”?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-breakneck-development-brings-flooding-in-its-wake-1468735508
Across central and southern China this year, flooding has affected more than 60 million people, with more than 200 killed and 147 billion yuan ($22 billion) in losses.

1,000 Homes Threatened by Santa Clarita Fire
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Santa-Clarita-Brush-Fire-387984602.html


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